2003 Ford F350 - 6.0L Dsl Knocking, Not Rod Brgs?

[Ruger77]

Has anyone had any knocking 6.0 diesel's that weren't rod bearings? We have only worked on a few of these engines, and it seems this one has a rod knock. I have tried to eliminate the flexplate and dampener, but I can't be positive without removing trans. I didn't know if there is a timing gear or something on these that chips causing a deep knock like a rod. I have sent an oil sample off to be tested, but it might take a week. Customer wants a diagnosis sooner. He is willing to put an engine in it, but I want to be sure. Oil pan R&R is my next thought, but easier said than done. Also, truck only has 165,000 on it and had a new (Ford test engine ) 4 years ago at 108,000 miles. Seems way to early for engine failure....but it was a "TEST" engine. Original engine supposedly had a bad #8 cylinder. Thanks for any help.

[steven kiser]

have had carbon between piston and head before. how many miles on it?

[a&mauto]

165000 miles does seem too early but it is still possible. Hard to tell without hearing it. I have had bad injector spray patterns cause some bad knocking noises.

[Ruger77]

Well this truck had a "new test engine" from ford about 60,000 miles ago. I have killed the injectors and it doesn't seem to show up on any particular cylinder. I'm kind of still leaning toward the flexplate, but I have no proof. Hopefully I can convince the customer to wait on the results from the oil sample.

[wbuxton]

I replaced my 2nd flex plate last week. Different vehicles...

[fortknoxx]

which chip does the customer have? is it just a programmer or is it like the Edge WAM tune on the fly? if it is the one with the pyro probe in the exh, did the customer down load the cheat to override the preset egt shut down temp? we had a few that did that and regretted it.

[Ruger77]

No chip in this one.....but maintenance program is not the best on this acct. Sure wish I could see that flexplate better.

[steven kiser]

as a rule i go with "my gut" in this case where the customer is willing to go for an r&r i would have explained the possibilities and my thought on the flex plate. i agree that here are times where it doesn't sound like a broken flex plate and it only gets worse when i start over thinking it. generally i find that the pattern scatters when i put the truck into gear. it seems to vary off of the rpm pattern that a rod would give. if you listen carefully you may hear a secondary chatter. rods don't give that. a bad rod on one of these usually leads to a piston slap on the head. you can usually feel it by placing your hand on the valve cover.

[Ruger77]

Well, finally got the results from the oil sample....... it showed no metal... just a little excessive fuel, but not much. Guess we're pullin a trans. I'll update the results.

[steven kiser]

just a quickie here. if i suspect metal in oil i use a fairly simple method. i take a plastic washer solvent bottle and cut the top off so it looks like a big cup. when i replace a blower motor i'll occasionally remove the magnets from it and use them to hold notes on my lifts, tool boxes, etc. i have one that i keep clean. i drain the oil from the crank case and after most of the oil has drained i'll collect a gallon in the container and drop the magnet into it. after it sits overnight i'll lift it out, place it on a clean white shop rag or floor absorption matt. spray it clean with brake cleaner and look on the magnet and matt for metal filings. if there is metal in it you'll find it. on all my customers with trucks i'll install a drain plug with a magnet attached to it so i can see the metal when i do a service. a knock on a dsl may not show metal. i've had injector knocks that sounded just like wrist pins. if you suspect a rod bearing knock, drain the oil and let the truck sit for a while. fill it with oil and start it. if there is a weak rod bearing there is a good chance you'll hear a knock and then it will quiet down a bit as oil pressure develops. i've had pistons come apart and knock. the metal pieces are big enough so they wont drop out and no filings or because they're aluminum will not show on a magnet. these pieces are usually bigger than a silver dollar. on trucks that the oil isn't all sludged up after it's been sitting with the drain plug out for a while i'll slide under it and with a plastic mallet i'll hit the oil pan. sometimes i can hear the metal rattling around in the pan. like i've said in the past, with a broken flex plate you can usually notice a scattering pattern with the noise. sometimes you have to mess with the accelerator pedal but the knock will scatter a bit and if it does it's usually the plate. another quickie is after you turn off the key usually you'll hear a rattle right after the engine shuts down.

[Ruger77]

Well...... tranny is out, flexplate is off, flexplate adaptor is off, and no signs of bent or broken flexplate. Torque converter looks ok externally. I think we are going to try and start the engine with the tranny out. The fan and belt are already off anyway. Before we pulled the trans. we killed the injectors one at a time and it really didn't change the noise. Seems like with an injector, wristpin, etc. the noise would change when you killed that injector. Also, truck runs great with no smoke. The only other clue that I have come up with is that while the engine is cranking, right before it starts, it sounds like it has a weak cylinder. I don't know how to explain it. But the truck does not run bad at all. By the way, no codes... for what it's worth.

[steven kiser]

have had bent push rods cause noises like this before. no rust lines in flex plate or shiny holes huh. haven't seen any converters making noise like this but william probably sees more in a month than I do in a year.

[Ruger77]

Ok... started engine without trans in truck..... cool..... it still knocks... still searching. Noise sounds low in engine.

[steven kiser]

well you got your answer. customer is willing to put an engine in it. may i suggest jasper.

[Ruger77]

We are pulling it now. We are going to tear it down when we get it out. I'll post the findings.

[Ruger77]

Engine out...........driver side head off....... something the size of a 1/4" lock washer has been beating on #6 piston. I'm not sure yet what it was or where it's from. It might be a piece of that piston, as there is a piece missing, but it looks sort of like a lock washer. It's melted into the top of the piston, but it's too damaged to identify.

[steven kiser]

i'm assuming this has a turbo on it. check the blades for damage. if none than that little bugger got in there by some mistake during a repair. anytime i have an intake opened i blow everything clean before i open it up and put everything i take off in a magnetic tray. i have port plugs and caps i've accumulated over the years and with these along with rolls of silver electrical tape (found this in the electrical dept at lowes, looks like duct tape, it's vinyl, 1/4 of the price and easy to work with) close all open ports. heck i even go as far as to look into the ports with my camera probe. i ate a chrystler 3.0 because of an errant loss of a 3/16 lock washer. knew i dropped it, couldn't find it, was cocky enough to assume it wasn't in the engine. started like a champ and man was i wrong. congrats on the find. i'm thinking you're going to drop in another mill. if you do don't tear that one down to much because you can loose the core value. again i recommend jasper, by far the best i've ever used. a bit more expensive but way, way, way, better. the warranty is great and it's a no hassel. if you're going to repair may i suggest tearing the other head off because as we all know debris will leave a trail. found this out the hard way as well. been around since the "wheel" and had my fair share of street smarts. if i were replacing the heads i would use alabama cylinder heads. but in todays market the final financial expense unless you're giving the labor away will be close enough to justify the extra expense of the lasper reman. i use the complete unit, and when i say you can hear the difference i mean it. ,when that baby starts up you just have that warm fuzzy feeling. call martha at x 2935. don't use my name she's great and goes the extra mile to explain all. well anyway, again congrats and thanks for keeping us updated.

[kolligutor]

Biggest source of debris in a 6.0 ford engine is usually tech error..These engines are prone to need repairs, and there are so many little bolts and screws etc that a less than proficient tech loses track of them..I have seen severl issues like this all caused by parts that fell into the intake system etc...Cold air intakes that the nuts and washers fall off inside the airfilter etc.....I've worked on a lot of ford Diesels and not very many 6.0's haven't been apart several times b4 they hit 160000 miles.

[steven kiser]

welcome to the forum. couldn't agree more about the error. even though years ago i caused a catastrophic engine failure by assuming the missing 3/16 lock washer didn't fall into the intake i have issue with the "tech". i wasn't a tech then but have tried to maintain a high level of professionalism for years. now i'm a tech. no one is more critical of me than me. when i do any work where an engine is opened up i'm like a dr. i blow the engine clear of any debris and once i reach the point of not needing to remove anything else all open ports are sealed with tape. if there are any anchoring hardware missing i make a note of it. i mean on paper, not mental. unfortunately i get so many interruptions during the day and am wearing many caps i will forget. everything is accounted for and missing hardware is replaced. on a rare occasion where something turns up missing i'm like dick tracy looking for it. i use my telescopic camera to look internally or into the timing belt area. i will not assume it's in an area where no damage will occur. this is a level of professionalism that i maintain and will accept nothing less. if after i finish a job and there is an extra bolt on the tray it will drive me nuts and i usually find i'm being the target of a joke. i do find extra bolts, etc laying on top of engines because someone else dropped them and just put another bolt (or not) in it's place. o.k.. now i'll shut up................