Manager Forum

The customer initially called me reporting that his 96 Camry (4 cyl, auto) has a transmission noise and requested a price on a transmission replacement estimate. So, I made an estimate but questioned him why he wants an estimate. He said because of noise in the transmission. Other than the noise, the trans works fine. I advised we take a look at it before we assume a trans r&r. After a couple of days, he drops in with this thing and one terrible noise from under the hood. I agreed to look into the noise as soon as I had time. Later that day, I opened the hood, started the engine and in a matter of seconds I saw the problem. Every single bolt holding the transmission to the engine had backed out and the torque converter was rubbing the side of the bell housing. I am trying to figure out what happened and how to repair this one as the threads are stripped out of some of the holes. I am getting the feeling this one is going to be strange. Is there anything that could have caused the bolts to back out like that? Obviously the options for repairs are slim picking.

Thta is weird. I work on these all the time and have for years. I've never seen that happen spontaniously. I would better someone had been there before and didn't tighten them properly. Has it had a transmission replaced or maybe removed before?

Well I agree Paul, it is a weird one. In 40 years of automotive repairs, I have not seen this before. Customer denies any engine or trans work done in years he owns the vehicle. But your thoughts are the same as mine. I also wonder if this fellow may have some enemies but you gotta be serious at wanting to loosen all these bolts. Some of them are not that easy to get to. So in my way of thinking it almost points to a situation where someone has been here in the past and failed to tighten the bolts.

I have to wonder if he had a repair done that he just wasn't aware required messing with these bolts andhe isn't putting 2 and 2 together?

Well, as mechanically uninclined as the owner appears to be (no disrespect to him) that certainly is a possibility. I suppose I need to probe more.

as far as the repair goes, I think they have a heli-coil set that size. Probably have to remove trans to drill the stripped holes. Only other option I can think of is to replace eng block.

Ok. I did find more info about this strange situation. I called the owner and asked if the engine was out of the vehicle in the last year or two. Well, he kinda hawed around and mentioned that the Toyota dealer had the car and he isn't sure what they did to it. He offered that maybe they had it out. He also said that when he got it back from them it had some kinda scraping noise that worsened the longer he drove the car. So, now perhaps we have a little of something to go on that we didn't have before. Well, this is kind of like a mystery story unfolding one screen at a time. Time will tell.

Sounds like you're pulling teeth on this one. It appears the customer isn''t giving up much information on this one for some reason. If this is true and it were in my shop the hair on my neck would be standing up. I would feel like i was being set up and take measures to prevent any fall out. The time line seems a bit wishy washy. I know of no one that when after picking up a vehicle from a dealer didn't bring it back when a noise developed. In my opinion if this is in fact true you may be the little red headed step child he's goiong to take all this out on.

steven kiser wrote:Sounds like you're pulling teeth on this one. It appears the customer isn''t giving up much information on this one for some reason. If this is true and it were in my shop the hair on my neck would be standing up. I would feel like i was being set up and take measures to prevent any fall out. The time line seems a bit wishy washy. I know of no one that when after picking up a vehicle from a dealer didn't bring it back when a noise developed. In my opinion if this is in fact true you may be the little red headed step child he's goiong to take all this out on.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. as soon as I read Tim's last post I had a bad feeling about this customer as well.

Well, this customer is one that is a migratory kind. He goes here for awhile, then over there, then to me, then on to some other shop. To me it is somewhat irritating because, like in this situation, you do not have the whole picture on any of his vehicles.

It's the type of customer that makes it hard to be successful with. I had one like that last week. 93 F150 with running rough and CEL. Opened the hood and a replacement engine was evident. I made it run better but I sent him down the road. Had about a dozen codes and the engine was from a different year vehicle. Um, no thanks. I can no doubt fix everything wrong with this vehicle, but I'd never really be successful with the customer. Take it back to where the engine was installed.

Got this Camry back in the shop now. Removing engine/transmission assembly. Well nigh every bolt is untightened. Regardless what the owner says, someone has clearly been here before, and not all that long ago.

Stay tuned!

'As The Bolt Turns' will be back after these important messages....

Ive never seen that i have seen loose flex plate bolts before on numerous vehicle though

I have a mitsubishi in here now that another shop told him he needed a timing belt because it won't start. I got to looking at it and found the starter and flywheel, looking through a inspection cover turn, but the timing belt, cam gears, and crank gear do not. Cust told me it had a rattling noise for the last 3 months, look and bolts to the transmission, engine are either missing or loose. Going to be fun to see what happened on the inside, hopefully just a flywheel!!! The guy he bought it from just put a engine in it!

So let me see if I understand things correctly; if you install an engine or transmission, you are supposed to re-install all the bolts AND tighten them up too? Man that seems like a lot of un-needed labor involved in the process.

liljoe wrote:So let me see if I understand things correctly; if you install an engine or transmission, you are supposed to re-install all the bolts AND tighten them up too? Man that seems like a lot of un-needed labor involved in the process.

Especially if someone else can do it for ya. Right?

Tim Martin wrote:

liljoe wrote:So let me see if I understand things correctly; if you install an engine or transmission, you are supposed to re-install all the bolts AND tighten them up too? Man that seems like a lot of un-needed labor involved in the process.

Especially if someone else can do it for ya. Right?

I was counting on blind luck to hold them for me.....

Again i'm going to remind us of the you work on it now you own it rule. I've seen issues like this resulting from the collars or pins missing. They are the machined tight fit and without them eventually the transmission will start to wiggle and loosen off. Hopefully the damage to the block is minimal and a set of new bolts will be all that's needed. The flex plate may look fine but it's been compromised and at a minimum will be distorted.

This is definitely a resolvable issue and i'm sure your repair will be exceptional but as an added protection i would add a disclaimer to the order explaining that the damage is severe enough to warrant a no guarantee or however how you decide to write it.

Make sure the centering pins or sleeves are intact when you assemble it. If they are missing and the machined surfaces are damaged enough that they fit sloppily in the housing the possibility of it loosening off again is present.

Steve, you mention some points worth considering. I too am somewhat concerned about the dowel pins but I suppose I'll have to wait till the engine is out which should be today sometime.

Thanks for the reminders.