1986 Pont Fiero - Clutch FIXED

[JBUTITTA]

I have installed a Delco clutch kit on a 86 Pontiac Fiero, 2.8 l, 4 speed trans, vin# 1G2PG9796GP272397, build date of 5-86, and 64k miles. Customers wife drove it 20 miles with the emergency brake on and and completely destroyed the clutch. She got the brakes so hot the caliper hardware and seals were melted. I had the flywheel machined (about .0015 of material removed), installed new clutck kit, axle seals, serviced trans fluid and replaced necessary brake parts. Upon starting of the car I noticed with the clutch engaged the tires were moving. It was also difficult to switch gears and impossible to get into reverse (grinding). The pedal felt as if it was not engaging the clutch until it traveled approx 3 or 4 inches. Bled the system (did not have system open during repairs), with no change. Thought that since everything got so hot I would try a new slave cylinder. Installed and bled and pedal felt great. Shifting was still difficult but better. After talking to a local trans shop, he had said that when he was doing alot of these in the 80's they would have the same problem and it was caused by to much material being removed from the flywheel. His suggestion at this point was to make a new slave cylinder rod and add a 1/4 inch. Not how I like to do things but thought I would try. It made it better but not right. At this point Im ready to start from scratch on monday and install a different brand clutch kit and new fly wheel but before I spend another 5 hours of labor to r/r I thought I should ask the experts here. HELP!!!!! What am i missing. thanks in advance. Jerry.

[brianp87]

I would try a shim and check the clutch fork and release bearing. Sounds like it could be any of these but I would bet its the amount taken off the flywheel.

[steven kiser]

years ago i had one of these beauties as a regular. i also put a brand new clutch from g.m. in it and there was an issue with the engagement height. this guy was driving me nuts. internet yadda, yadda, i bled the hydraulics until i was sore. bought a pressure bleeder. bled from the slave to the master. a bit better. put another clutch in with little or no difference. finally what i did to resolve it was (if i remember exactly, but close enough to give you the drift of what i'm conveying) i took an adjustable clutch master cylinder ram (ford) and adapted it to the one in the fiero. i'm pretty sure i cut the ends off and welded the gm ones onto the ford one. being able to adjust the rod 1/2 and inch made all the difference in the world. my heart bleeds for you, i've been there. by the way i believe that the flywheel is a throw away. fogs starting to clear on this one. i believe in my investigations with all the "clubs" i read that there is little room for any space change. i also think that this is one of the rare discs that can be installed backwards and still somewhat function. like i said, this car made me loose more hair than my daughters did. fun car to drive, quick as a jack rabbit, but a nightmare to work on. i'll light a prayer candle for you.............

[JBUTITTA]

Getting back into this one today. I have a different brand cluth kit and new flywheel ordered. Hopefully I will post a "FIXED" tomorrow and it better NOT be technition error!!!!! jerry

[brianp87]

Im curious although I will prolly never see one in here

[steven kiser]

when, or if you see one of these don't be lulled into "it doesn't look that bad" because if your not accustomed to these it may turn you against being a mechanic. in theory they're great and a blast to drive but a bear to work on. it's like g.m studied all the engineering pluses on the german cars then threw them out the window and did it their way. i think that they never took into account the torque of the engine or it was more than they expected, at least on the V6. that car would really move and i thought handled real well for an american car of that era. a bit tough to get into but plenty of room once inside. if i remember correctly the clutch was a bear to bleed and had to be reverse bled. i used a rubber hose on the end of an air blow gun and attached it to the bleeder, pushed the fluid into the reservoir. i would push pedal to floor, and after reservoir started to fill i would raise the pedal slowly to fill the master chamber. i found that this was the only way to remove the air fully. even if the system wasn't opened i've had slave cylinders pick up air by fully extending. another tip here, i would replace the mounts if i were you. when i worked on these and had to remove the engine i was really never able to eliminate the "new" drone unless the mounts were replaced. i actually experienced this. i brought one in and it was fine, took it out and it had a drone. no matter what i did with the mounts i couldn't align them so it wouldn't make a noise. i could change it but not eliminate it until i replaced the mounts. i would still work on them but not with a quoted price.........

[JBUTITTA]

I did try to post the fix about 2 hours ago but when I submitted it I got booted. A/C delco gets part of the blame but in my opinion, technition error is at fault. The disc was installed backwards. The sticker on the disk that said "FLYWEEL SIDE" was on the wrong side. The technition that installed the cluth should have known it was wrong. When he opened the new kit his comment was, " if you need a sticker to tell you how to install a clutch you shouldnt be fixin cars". The car is on the road with a happy customer and not so happy employee. thanks for the replies, Jerry

[steven kiser]

thanks for posting the fix. i think that there are a good number of us that have installed a disc backwards. i knew that this particular clutch was one that could go in backwards and this wasn't because i'm a good guesser.

[vinnieg]

The disc was installed backwards. The sticker on the disk that said "FLYWEEL SIDE" was on the wrong side. The technition that installed the cluth should have known it was wrong. When he opened the new kit his comment was, " if you need a sticker to tell you how to install a clutch you shouldnt be fixin cars".

I seem to recall a distant memory of someone installing a disk bassackward at some time in the distant past. (Modesty prevents me from taking credit, I'd rather pretend it was someone else and blame them.)

Too funny about the "teknishiun's" comment. I often remind my guys that when they are having problems with installing a part it won't cost anything to look in the box, pull out the instructions and read them, then try it again.

Maybe it is just old age or something but I tell folks I don't even try to 'remember' things for which I know there are written instructions. That is a trick I learn working on aircraft in the Air Force. You were expected to have the tech data for every task on hand and open to the applicable page while doing a job. It seemed pretty anal at first, but after developing the habit I realized I can be a lot better and remain a lot more current if I have the instructions available on every job.

I had a prospective customer come in to my shop several years ago and ask if we had the current books for repairing cars. Thinking he was concerned about quality and accuracy I assured him we had up to date tech data and waved my arm back and the overloaded bookshelves. He shook his head and said he would go someplace else because he didn't trust any shop that had to depend on the manuals "to get it right" and didn't want to pay for the time the mechanics would have to spend looking the information up. Didn't hurt my feelings when he left. I even resisted the impulse to chase after him while promising we wouldn't look up any information when we worked on his vehicle.

Max

[steven kiser]

wait a minute, maybe i shouldn't have lifts to work on vehicles. all the wasted time setting the vehicles correctly just hit me. i should have been just kicking the arms in and having at it. man, the guy was right. all the wasted time making sure the job was done correctly. just one more way we run up the price. admit it, you got caught red handed trying to do quality work. in all reality all we need to repair vehicles is vice grips, hammer, and screw driver. the rest of the thousands and thousands of dollars (ten's of thousands) are just used to drive the price up. i bet that's why restaurants wash tables, driving the price up. the nerve of them. some people like this guy have it all figured out. i hope he doesn't write a book exposing all the shops that have manuals. i wonder if he asks for a price break on something that requires assembly if they remove the instructions from the box. now i have to admit that on some occasions i would have been better off if i never looked but that was on a few rare occasions. i remember a grill we bought one time, couldn't get the bolt holes to line up. was driving me nuts (more than i am already) into the pick up it went and off to the shop. 10 minutes with a mig welder and i had a grill.