Manager Forum

I have a question on the labor catalogs. Let's say you do a waterpump on a car and the labor shows 1.3. That is the labor to perform the repair. Does it include diagnostic labor? And what about the labor for the test drive? I called Alldata and they told me their labor included diagnostic time and drive time.

That is labor for replacement only. What was needed for the diagnosis? A pressure test then document and charge for that. A road test not probally needed on a leak but overheating yes then document and charge for it. Do what you need or feel is correct for your business .

I would say no on the diagnostic and yes on the final road test.

FWIW, we add a percentage to each labor time.

Personally I will charge for diagnostic time. I do as Brain says and put a separate line item in for "Cooling system testing". I will also add additional time to the labor in the estimator to cover road testing. For instance if the labor to do the water pump was 1.3 hours I will charge 1.6 hours. I feel putting a road test as a line item would cause too many issues with my customers. I think they would feel that should just be a given and I was just trying to pad the bill. Just my two cents.

We usually place diagnostic time, labor, and test drive as a single labor item. The one exception to that is when we are diagnosing an electrical issue, be it driveline related or body. And, we usually will test drive after most if not all repairs. Our customers expect that of us. And, we include the diagnostic steps and the test drive in the labor description as well. For example, using the water pump job, we would put down "Pressure test cooling system for leaks. Run engine to observe cooling system performance and temperatures. Replace leaking water pump, fill with coolant and test drive". Customers usually appreciate being told what they are paying for.

There has been some questions brought up on what's included in the labor times. For instance say labor on a waterpump....is diag time, paperwork time, testdrive time, included in that labor or is the labor time just to do the repair. All data says that all diag and paperwork is included unless otherwise noted. What does Mitchels labor guide take into account?

To clarify this is more like what I do. If the labor time for the water pump is 1.50. Id write it like this. And make the time what you need it to be. The guide is just a guide.

Inspect coolant leak
Pressure tested cooling system
Tested for combustion gases in the cooling system
Replaced leaking water pump and serpentine belt
Cleaned off excess fluid
Road tested

If we do a coolant flush with this Id add

Inspect hoses and clamps
Pressure test cooling system
Flush engine and radiator
Bring antifreeze to -35 degrees
Check thermostat and cooling fan operation

Tim Martin wrote:We usually place diagnostic time, labor, and test drive as a single labor item. The one exception to that is when we are diagnosing an electrical issue, be it driveline related or body. And, we usually will test drive after most if not all repairs. Our customers expect that of us. And, we include the diagnostic steps and the test drive in the labor description as well. For example, using the water pump job, we would put down "Pressure test cooling system for leaks. Run engine to observe cooling system performance and temperatures. Replace leaking water pump, fill with coolant and test drive". Customers usually appreciate being told what they are paying for.

I agree I try to add whats needed for them to understand or for us to later. Even if we replace windshield wiper blades ill add a labor line even if its $0.

We always show diagnosis and testing as a separate item. First, it gives me better reporting, as I can break out these labors. Second, it shows the customer that there is value in testing/diagnosis. It's one thing I can do to educate the customer in this area. If everyone did it, it would be commonplace and accepted.

Here is a Labor FAQ that may help: https://kb.mitchell1.com/articles/id-644

[quote="brianp87I agree I try to add whats needed for them to understand or for us to later. Even if we replace windshield wiper blades ill add a labor line even if its $0.[/quote]

That is something that my boss has been making sure we do, anything that we do with out a charge needs to be noted on the invoice for the simple fact that if you don't list it then the client has no way of knowing that you did a "value added" service on their vehicle. Any time we do things like this we try to charge an amount then remove that charge in the form of a discount. Anything that is not documented seems to have never happened, esp if it is something we do for our clients to give them added value. We as an industry need to remember that EVERYTHING we do has a value to it and that nothing can truly be "free".

liljoe wrote:[quote="brianp87I agree I try to add whats needed for them to understand or for us to later. Even if we replace windshield wiper blades ill add a labor line even if its $0.

That is something that my boss has been making sure we do, anything that we do with out a charge needs to be noted on the invoice for the simple fact that if you don't list it then the client has no way of knowing that you did a "value added" service on their vehicle. Any time we do things like this we try to charge an amount then remove that charge in the form of a discount. Anything that is not documented seems to have never happened, esp if it is something we do for our clients to give them added value. We as an industry need to remember that EVERYTHING we do has a value to it and that nothing can truly be "free".[/quote]


Interesting so instead of $0 for it. Make it a discount. Does this seem to make ppl happy?

Yes. people seem to love seeing any kind of a discount show up on the invoice. We been giving dominoes coupons for a free one topping large carry out pizza if they refer another customer to us that has work done, we buy them for 7 bucks each and people act like we are giving away a whole cow or something. We give them a couple of our cards when we finish the transaction in the office that we stamp on the back with a refered by stamp that we got. We have had good success with this program for about two months now. When we use up the ones we have now we will probably check on a different coupon to give out just to change things up a bit. But hopefully I will not be dealing with anymore of this much longer. As soon as we can find a qualified replacement that fits our needs I am going to traveling more doing the medical imaging service. Been on the road since Thursday and haven't touched a car since and it sure is nice to have no grease under my finger nails for a change. Plus when I show up to a doctors office or imaging center or hospital they are very happy to see me, people with car problems are glad that I am there for them, but they are not happy to see me. I have actually gotten cheers when I showed up at one orthopedic doctor that had an xray system that was down, That has never happened at the shop.

Dang, looks like I pulled a Steve and got long winded and off track a little bit, oooops.

Wow sounds good. So you're changing careers. What brought that on? I hope it works out well for you.

Four years ago the owner of the shop sold it to his son and he is in the medical aging business and he has been train me and now has me at a point where I am ready to start doing it full time....

Wow sounds good beats working on 6.0L fords.......

brianp87 wrote:

Tim Martin wrote:We usually place diagnostic time, labor, and test drive as a single labor item. The one exception to that is when we are diagnosing an electrical issue, be it driveline related or body. And, we usually will test drive after most if not all repairs. Our customers expect that of us. And, we include the diagnostic steps and the test drive in the labor description as well. For example, using the water pump job, we would put down "Pressure test cooling system for leaks. Run engine to observe cooling system performance and temperatures. Replace leaking water pump, fill with coolant and test drive". Customers usually appreciate being told what they are paying for.

I agree I try to add whats needed for them to understand or for us to later. Even if we replace windshield wiper blades ill add a labor line even if its $0.

Could you just add this as a note of what was done?

Sauvageaus wrote:

brianp87 wrote:

Tim Martin wrote:We usually place diagnostic time, labor, and test drive as a single labor item. The one exception to that is when we are diagnosing an electrical issue, be it driveline related or body. And, we usually will test drive after most if not all repairs. Our customers expect that of us. And, we include the diagnostic steps and the test drive in the labor description as well. For example, using the water pump job, we would put down "Pressure test cooling system for leaks. Run engine to observe cooling system performance and temperatures. Replace leaking water pump, fill with coolant and test drive". Customers usually appreciate being told what they are paying for.

I agree I try to add whats needed for them to understand or for us to later. Even if we replace windshield wiper blades ill add a labor line even if its $0.

Could you just add this as a note of what was done?

You could. I like the zero dollar amount to show they were not charged for it.

I prefer a labor line too. That way a tech gets tagged for it. Keeps everything nice and clean.

ricmorin wrote:I prefer a labor line too. That way a tech gets tagged for it. Keeps everything nice and clean.

That's a good point also