2005 Ford F250/6.0L Hot Start - FIXED

[NPASC_mike]

All we did was remove the compressor bolts which gives you just enough room to get a avg size hand in there... Unfortunately for my new tech... he has XXL hands... so I ended up doing it..lol

I hate to change vehicle or hijack this thread.. But if my truck has had the Injector pressure regulator and sensor replaced, and I am still only getting 105 psi
max out of the high pressure pump... my HP pump is bad, correct? Or am I reading I may have an internal oil leak somewhere causing the low pressure.

[brianp87]

Could be either. THe ones I see have issues always seem to happen right after an oil change then the hard start occurs. Ive never had one apart that that screen was still intact.

[steven kiser]

agreed, it could be either but as a rule it's usually a restricted screen and a bad pump. if i recall corectly i've never seen a factory installed pump loose pressure from an attached seal. it's alway's been ones that were installed at a slop shop. you'll know when it's one of those. there is usually a lot of missing and mis matched bolts, loose and missing clamps and just an all around lousey jobs.

[Tim Martin]

They did have some issues with a cracked branch tube coming off the high pressure oil pump. Was there any debris on the regulator screen when you took it off?

[protraxrptr17]

Pull the regulator and look at it real close. I will not install a new regulator without replacing the screen under the cooler unless the customer is willing to take the fall. Could have a bad HPOP, but I would make absolutely sure before I made the call. Make a fitting like I described a few posts back so that you can put shop air to the oil system. Some leakage is normal, but if you hear a huge whooshing sound, you got leakage problems. Regulator is the most common cause of no start. Take a fuel sample and look for signs of engine oil. You might have a leaky injector o-ring. You say you had some connector problems, check pressure with just the key on. Maybe you have a sensor wiring issue.

[Tim Martin]

Pull the regulator and look at it real close. I will not install a new regulator without replacing the screen under the cooler unless the customer is willing to take the fall. Could have a bad HPOP, but I would make absolutely sure before I made the call. Make a fitting like I described a few posts back so that you can put shop air to the oil system. Some leakage is normal, but if you hear a huge whooshing sound, you got leakage problems. Regulator is the most common cause of no start. Take a fuel sample and look for signs of engine oil. You might have a leaky injector o-ring. You say you had some connector problems, check pressure with just the key on. Maybe you have a sensor wiring issue.

Say there is debris on the regulator, that would mean that the screen is damaged and any debris found in the regulator would have gone through the pump. Correct? This would mean that the pump is damaged/worn to a point that it should/needs to be replaced. Right? So, in that event we are looking at some big dollars. I have not done one of those yet but I am sure it will come in the future at some point.

[protraxrptr17]

Possibly, but I have not yet had to replace an HPOP due to this. I have replaced a bucket full of regulators and screens. Most of the debris actually comes from the screen itself which is really fine plastic. I dont think it harms the pump, just sticks the regulator. I guess it has really tight tolerances and ANY particles will make it stick. I think alot of good HPOPs get replaced because of a bad regulator or a leak somewhere.

[NPASC_mike]

Thanks for the replies.. for some reason.. I only get an email for certain replies to this thread. I personally have not seen the screen yet, the previous shop put in their notes it was " clean enough" before they installed a new regulator and sensor( and the new pigtail wired in reversed so it constantly read an obscene high pressure) Pulling this thing back in Wednesday to get back on it while I've got the Ford tech on the phone for a bit. ( They are footing the bill Customer bought the truck, had it shipped out here and a month or so later it quit running) that was almost a year ago now before it was towed over here against my better judgement.

Last question.. ( for today anyway). Which FCIM PID is supposed to be reading 48 volts. I see several PID's pertaining to the fcim. What a truck to learn Diesels on....

[protraxrptr17]

Only one of those will be that high. the others should be about battery voltage. I dont remember the name.

[Tim Martin]

Ok, since I began this thread, I suppose I can rope it back in. The owner gave me permission to reseal the oil rail and the injectors. I saw what I would define as probable sources of oil leakage, one injector oring in the top was dry rotted and brittle, broke apart when I tried to remove it. Another was the left bank stand pipe fell out as I was lifting oil rail off. Well, I got it all back together only to have the customer back in about 2 hours saying we still have the problem. He picked it up from the shop, drove to his house, an hour later decided to go to Lowes, come out from Lowes and engine cranked over but would not start. No smoke, no cel, no start. Eventually after trying a number of times it started. He immediately came to the shop and I connected my scan tool. No codes, PCM saw engine rpm and oil pressure as soon as engine began to crank over. As soon as engine fired, high oil pressure was 970 which immediately dropped to 550 at idle. Nothing else turned up. Today he stopped in after work, I connected my scan tool, cranked it over - no start. PCM saw engine rpm indicating crank signal, synch pids were saying YES, oil pressure was 900+. But no start. Later it fired right up and run fine. There is no anti theft on this vehicle. Almost I am stumped on this one. What do I check next? What am I missing?

[protraxrptr17]

What was ficm volts when the no start was happening? Only thing left that I can think of to cause a no start with no other symptoms, unless maybe a pcm issue but that would be a new one for me. Find a loaner FICM if you can.

[Tim Martin]

Sorry I failed to notice that FICM voltage. I suppose you mean the like 48 volt pid. Right?

[protraxrptr17]

Yes. The other PIDS could be helpful too. Check the FICM relay too. I think it could have a problem and never throw a code.

[Tim Martin]

Ok, an update. I installed a loaner FICM with the same hard start/no start issue as before. So, I am back to the drawing board on this one. Am really scratching my head now. So much so that there is a developing bald spot on the top of my head. Never had that happen before.

[steven kiser]

may be way off here and it just popped into my mind. ya,ya, i know we don't need to go there. years ago i had a dsl truck that wouldn't start hot. this was when they were dsl's. no computer interference or controls. no one had any ideas. it had been to the dealer many times and all the specialty shops. i was taught the principle of fuel, compression, spark, exhaust. well there is no spark on a dsl so i looked into fuel, exhaust, compression. the compression was low but it would fire off when cold but not hot. chain was worn.

[liljoe]

Did you check for a good supply of fuel to the engine during the no start? Could be a pump going south??????

[brianp87]

The only ones I have had hard start when warm were oil pressure issues. Cold they started fine.

[liljoe]

The only ones I have had hard start when warm were oil pressure issues. Cold they started fine.

That has been my experance as well, except for one truck that was a crank sensor signal problem, but he seems to have ruled that out at this point.....

[steven kiser]

what happens if you disconnect the heater hoses, attach a garden hose and flush out the block until the temp drops? for some reason i get the feeling (if all the pressure readings are correct and compression good) it may not be a heat issue rather a run time one. i had an issue like this on a grenade that i had replaced the high pressure pump and switch on and i pulled the switch and found a tiny bit of contamination on the screen. cleaned it off and it ran fine for a week or two, pulled the switch and found more crapolla. cleaned it again and flushed out the port. used a tube wand i use for a/c vent cleaning. attached it to a brake clean can, ran the tube about two feet into the port and blasted away. after i cranked it over, spent about an hour cleaning up the mess, put it together and haven't had it in the shop since. yes, i called the customer to make sure it's still running.............it appears there was a bit of loose debris in the system. another quick think here. another thought here, when it's a no go, during the initial crank what's the oil pressure reading on the gauge.

[Tim Martin]

Ok. We finally got to the root of this one. The fix for this one was to get down to the quick coupling at the high pressure oil pump and install a new and improved coupling as well as new standpipes and new dummy oil plugs in the high pressure oil rail. Truck starts fine now when it is hot.

Thanks guys for all the ideas and help on this one. It has been a learning experience for all of us.