2003 Ford F250 - 6.0L HPOP Issues? FIXED

[NPASC_mike]

Going into round two with this truck, Has anyone seen repeat failures of the HPOP on the 6.0? We found the pump seized up and the rotation of the cam had actually spun the bolt off the gear on the pump. Replaced the pump, inspected cam gear ( was fine) pulled oil pan to remove debris, cleaned all the oil passages and 5 weeks later the trucks back with the same issue. The pump we replaced was a ford reman pump which I have to assume the selling dealer ( or someone) installed it prior to my customer purchasing it. This also means this truck is now on its third pump in less than 3000 miles. I have heard a lot of people putting replacement engines in these trucks, but why? Am I missing something that there is no TSB or other info on that Ford is keeping hush hush??

Scratching my head and not getting much help from the Selling Dealer.

[liljoe]

Have you had the oil cooler off? There is a screen under there that will come apart and let stuff get into the pump and cause it to lock up. Will look for my pics of the set up in the morning. I also have the Ford coffee table book on the ford 6.0 in PDF format. I would be willing to send it to ya if you need or want it. It has very good descriptions and pics of the entire engine assembly and all its sub systems.

[liljoe]

Here ya go.....

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2.jpg (69.57 KiB) Viewed 6367 times

[NPASC_mike]

Let me show these to my tech, I kept sticking my head in there while he was working, I know we replaced these already, and I was adamant about getting the entire system cleaned out. ( which I am now starting to think is impossible without disassembling the entire engine..

[brianp87]

Every time ive done an oil pump or heads the screen is gone missing. Ive never had one that had the screen in tact.

[NPASC_mike]

Ford Dealer installed the first pump, We did the second under Warranty for Ford ESP ( which is the biggest joke of a warranty company I have dealt with yet) NOW my tech is telling me he doesn't remember seeing this screen...I guess I know what I am doing this weekend, Joe I sent you a private message. Sounds to me like my guy missed a vital step after we discussed being as thorough on this job as we could possibly be.

[liljoe]

Ford Dealer installed the first pump, We did the second under Warranty for Ford ESP ( which is the biggest joke of a warranty company I have dealt with yet) NOW my tech is telling me he doesn't remember seeing this screen...I guess I know what I am doing this weekend, Joe I sent you a private message. Sounds to me like my guy missed a vital step after we discussed being as thorough on this job as we could possibly be.

The screen is under the oil cooler cover at the front of the engine, not under the HPOP cover at the rear. With both cover removed and the pump out, I like to use carb cleaner and air pressure to clean the resivoir and passages out REAL good before reassembly. You will find around 1.5-2 qts od oil under the cover, so be ready for a bit of a mess....

[NPASC_mike]

I see some good pics of it now, Mitchell does not have that much about it . Him and I discussed this reservoir, which kind of ticks me off that it was not removed. Now that I am hearing what he's telling me, I'm not surprised it is back, which bugs me even more.

Some of you might laugh at this, I called my Ford parts dealer and he says to me, " Every now and then we get a batch of bad pumps...."

Last question, Is the cooler serviceable, as far as cleaning it out? Is there any reason I should opt to replace it while it's out?

[steven kiser]

i've always cleaned them. basically just a reservoir. i've seen them without filters before. why, i have no idea. just like in the cam timers in gm's, once i find metal in the screen it becomes a yearly thing. i've flat out told customers with these grenades (6.0) that once there is metal contamination the filter will probably plug up again within a year and need to be replaced. i have a customer that went ahead and purchased one without talking to me and has dumped about 8k into the engine and attachments. hpop, injectors, ( two on the drivers side head shut down and i strongly suggested replacing all and it was declined) 6 mos later the others needed replacement. we all know how much fun the drivers side on a e series is. he's a real nice guy and never questions what i recommend until this time. apparently he had it on a spread sheet and if he went ahead on the injector replacement it would cause a p&l issue. two weeks ago it came in with a blown belt caused by a seized a/c compressor. that bill rocked him a bit. flat out refused to put a reman in it, even one from ford. he listened to me on this one.

[liljoe]

. we all know how much fun the drivers side on a e series is.

Just finished replacing the main engine/injector harness on one of these beasts, of course it is a meat wagon, so lots of spare room under the dog house......

[NPASC_mike]

Thanks for the replies and to Lil Joe for the Bible. I had "assumed" the HPOP went bad again given the customers decsription of what happened and what we were seeing on the data.
IPR failed, so we resealed with all new orings EVERY component again, and then discovered a new problem, The aftermarket oil filter ( the kind that comes with a new screw on top) does not seal correctly sometimes causing a low eng oil pressure condition. My local Ford dealer says he has seen this numerous times with NAPA and CQ filters.. ( which I thought were Wix??)

Anyway, OEM oil filter, new IPR( supposedly was changed just before we got this in a few months back) new screen, and reclean the entire system, all new seals on all the HPOP and components and she fires right up as designed.

Ford tells me the Fuel filters have been doing the same thing, so, DONT THROW AWAY THOSE OEM FILTER TOPS and use OEM filters on a 6.0 is what I learned this week, along with the lesson, never assume, Diag first!!!!!

[Tim Martin]

I must agree with your comments on the oem filters. We have also seen low oil pressure due to aftermarket filters. We also use ONLY oem filters, both fuel and oil. I haven't quite figured out what the issue is yet. Have not had time to examine it close up but I do know there is a difference.

Thanks for your reminders.

[NPASC_mike]

I wish I had the luxury of just running down the the Ford Dealer... they are 872 miles from here, by plane. Ahhhhhh if it fits it ships!

[Tim Martin]

Well, I guess we are spoiled. We have 4 dealers within 30 miles of here, no make that 5 dealers within 30 miles. And one of them is a very big dealer with skads of truck parts. I feel for ya as we have no GM dealer that close. But so it goes.

[steven kiser]

i guess i have the luxury of having all sorts of dealers within 10 or 15 miles of my shop. on rare occasions when a customer has an odd ball vehicle i strongly recommend they purchase any common fail parts if it's financially feasible. i've developed a following of people with fiat spiders and datsun 2000 roadsters. i got them to kind of group purchase a varied selection of parts that i can pick from when i'm working on one of these vehicles. i had a spider in here a month ago that had a failed crank sensor. normally it would have taken a week to ten days to get the part but there was one available through another of my customers that owned one of these. if i were in a location like east bum f**k i would either stock a lot of common dealer parts, try to force my local supplier to do so, customer to do so, or try to get my customers that owned like vehicles to have a part supply set up. we have a few fleets we service and stock a lot of common parts for these. a quick example is we stock rear spring bumper cushions for W3500's as well a one set of transmission cooler, oil cooler lines and an oil pan for the dsl application.

[NPASC_mike]

I do the best I can to keep a majority of things in stock. Stuff like the 6.0L filters carquest had so I wasn't worried about it, until now. We go though shift cables on these F series like crazy out here and at 130.00 bucks a pop its hard to keep a bunch in stock. I found some deals on them at RockAuto.com, but i had had to replace EVERY one with and OEM cable, another lesson learned. My inventory budget is not that great so I do my best to pick and choose what we keep the most of. Getting harder now as more and more people are starting to bring in New Hondas, Toyotas and a few others where until the last few years, it was predominantly vehicles built by the "big 3" I use the Mitchell Reports once a month to see what I have been ordering that I did not stock, if I order two or more of one item consistently a month, I start stocking it. Saves on shipping costs to me and my customers, and reduces down time.

Supposedly my NAPA vendor in Anchorage is working an a deal that utilizes DMV records to see what vehicles are out here, and the computer spits out a recommended selection of parts we should stock. Still waiting to see how that works. Right now my lot if FULL because we're waiting on parts for most of the stuff and I still have two disabled vehicles inside waiting on parts, which drives me nuts as the bays are tied up. I wont complain about being busy though, the other two shops lots are empty , as are their bays.

[steven kiser]

man, i wish i could say the other two shops. if there were only two in my area i would be heel kicking happy. i know your situation and three shops are a lot in your little corner of the world. you mentioned car quest filters. i had issues with their replacement filters (oil) leaking at the seal. all the trucks that come into my shop for service get the oem filter. if they have a car quest filter on it i take a ford cap out of stock and use it. they claim that the leak issue has been repaired but i still have reservations about the filter-cap combination. car quest claims that there are so may times that techs crack the caps removing them with channel lock pliers they made the filter-cap combo. i also run into issues where other "shops" dig out the car quest filter and completely crush the oem one trying to install it in the filter cylinder. i firmly believe that these time bombs don't need any outside assistance to implode. you mentioned shift cables. aren't they a blast. especially when the owners wait so long that the cast aluminum parts are stretched like gumby. the overdrive button on the lever is taped on, cleats on the shift lever in the column are all worn out, one screw on the arm attaching the cable is loose and holes are all hogged out. what do you mean 300 to 400 dollars. the shop down the street can do it for two. so can i but it won't work and you'll be complaining it's all loose.

[NPASC_mike]

LMAO, Are you sure you haven't worked out here before?? I Love the ones that come in freaking out about the shift lever and the washer pump not working, but three universal joints are ready to fall out, all 4 ball joints are popping through the top of the joint, the pitman arm seal leaves a trail Hansel and Gretel could follow home and the oil hasn't been changed since sometime in 2009......

I've googled a lot of things on this 6.0, and you're right, these things don't need any outside "help". SO far I have learned more about this engine in here than anywhere else. Thank Gawd there is only two or three of these engines on the island. But, between this particular truck and what we have read in here, We've learned a lot about it. Thanks again for everyone's input.

Hate that my internet is so shoddy out here that I cant contribute more, but grateful we have a forum like this.

Now, where's my coffee.....

[steven kiser]

i do work for shops in my area that i get along with. you know the ones that are willing to help and really don't compete. one called me and asked if i worked on ford super duty's. a customer of his was thinking about purchasing a 2006 with a 6.0 in it. i flat out told him all the issues with these and figured his customer would walk away. well he didn't and he flew 1/2 way across the country to buy one. so far we've towed it in twice with gas contamination, replaced the high pressure pump, in three trips all the injectors (i told him to bite the bullet and do all them at once especially the drivers side) he researched it on the inter net and decided not to. that move cost him an extra grand. we've done the ball joints and rear springs as well as the high pressure solenoid twice because of metal contamination from his driver not checking the oil level. it wouldn't start and when we towed it in it was 8 quarts of oil low. the owner bought this because the dsl offered more miles to the gallon. the last time it was in i told him the only way to recover his money was to park it. i flat out told this guy i really felt bad for him and tried to warn him. i was told it was appreciated but he couldn't back out now. the first time something major failed in this mill i suggested biting the bullet and replacing it. he thought i was nuts. on hind sight he said he wished he listened. he needs this van because of it's length and this particular van travels all over new england. he sharpens all sorts of blades. from saw blades to kitchen knives. this van travels to all the ice rinks swapping out zamboni blades as well as the big tree chipper blades. he's shown me some that take two men to carry. one slip and they'll be calling you lefty. well enough for me. couldn't sleep worth sh*t and waiting for it to lighten up a bit so i can go fishing. last time i didn't wait i got caught up in a root. not as nimble as i once was and hit the ground like a use rubber.

[NPASC_mike]

I did some research on this particular truck with the service manager where this truck was Originally sold in Fairbanks where it had regular service and only a few small warranty issues. None pertaining to any driveability issues. At some point it ended up in Anchorage at Cal Worthington Ford. I'm not scared to mention their name because they have been flat out unwilling to help this customer out after they sold him this truck, shipped it out here, then he drove it for about two weeks and it quit running. Hell, the batteries were dead when they unloaded it.

It looks to me from the service records the original owner started having issues and the above dealer did one of two things, quoted the repairs out so high the customer opted to trade it in, or worked on it, charged the customer, it failed again, and they ended up selling him a new vehicle anyway. When we got it, it already had a reman turbo and reman HPOP in it, Heat shields were damaged, bolts missing or in the wrong location. My gut feeling is they took the truck in on trade, got it running and when my customer out here was looking at it, they said " PERFECT!" we'll never see it again. Soaked him 5k for the Ford ESP Warranty which has been a nightmare to deal with as I am not a Ford dealership. Worthington Ford literally hung up on my customer when he was originally calling in to try to get help getting his new truck fixed. The manager at the original Selling dealership ( Seekins Ford) and the warranty administrator and Kendall Ford ( My main Ford parts supplier) have gone over and above trying to assist me and my customer. I have and always will stand behind anything I work on or sell. Just ticks me off the way this one dealership has screwed this guy around.

As far as the other shops go, I do my best to get along. We are all out here on a small island. There are 4 shops all together. two of them I can deal with sometimes, One has called me on occasion for advice, or to see if I might have some oddball part in stock. One day, while up visiting the parts store which is attached to one of the shops, I saw thier body guy trying to fix a door that should have just been replaced and I told the owner, Hey, I am pretty sure I have a door with 80% less damage on it in the yard, come down and see if it will work and take it. Which he did. My hopes are that he will return the favor someday when I need something he has. We shall see. I have customers that bounce back and forth between shops and I let them. I know anyone can have their car worked on anywhere or buy parts anywhere, I am selling Service. Which is why they usually end up back in my parking lot. Dad taught me two things, Let your work speak for itself, and you don't want 100% of any one mans business, if you lose his business, you've lost 100% of it. So I let the customers decide where the best deals are. The folks who dont question the repairs and just want it fixed right, I try to take care of them. The ones who nickle and dime me, well, they get what they paid for, and I warn them about it. I'm sure you've gotten the line" Well so and so can do it for this price". My standard reply to that is, " If so and so can do the exact job I have quoted you, and stand behind it 100%, then I think you should have him do it."

Ahhh so much for lazy sundays... Off to the shop .