Ford 5.4L Spark Plug Removal Time

[Tim Martin]

How do I give an estimate for spark plug replacement on this 06 F150 with a 5.4L vin 5 engine? We all know that most of the plugs are going to break off in the head and require much time above the 2.8 hrs given for spark plug replacement. Do I simply refuse to give an estimate? Or can I do say 10 hours or how would you handle this one? This is a good customer and, while I am not looking forward to the job, I will be doing it.

[Pauls Automotive]

I always tell them up front that this is a known problem for these and there is a high probibilty that a few if not all will break due to the fact nobody ever pulls them out to lube them and the fuse themselves into place over the years. I then tell them that we can do some thing to help loosen them up such as letting them soak in penitrating oil overnight and work the plug back and forth slowly to get them loosened. I try to reassure them we will do our best to prevent it but it is still likely they will break. If they do then I charge an hour per plug to remove them above the 2.8 to do the iniatail job. Most people dont like hearing this but in the end when I take my time explaining and realize it isn't my fault. they will either choose to go ahead and try or just leave them alone till the have no other choice. Most give me the go ahead. I alos let them know that the longer they can leave it with me the better because the soak time in the penitrating oil helps a lot and this time doesnt cost them a penny.

[ricmorin]

Tim,

We quote the regular time and soak them overnight. Let the customer know what could happen and re-estimate if it does. Gladly we have not broken any yet. But I've repaired plenty that were already broken. Repairs are 3 hours plus materials per hole. HTH.

[nickscarcare]

I just quoted one of these, and I went the 2.8 hours plus parts, made him aware of the issues with these vehicles, and told him there may be extra time involved if they do break. I also told the guy that he would have to sign the estimate and on there I have it stated that there may be extra time involved due to breaking spark plugs. He was ok with that. Longest one I did took almost 5 hours, only one plug came out whole and it didn't come out easy. I had one of these I did recently and only 2 broke total time was 3.5 hours to do the tune. I was very surprised!! Hope this gives a little more insight, I know every customer is different. In fact I just had a guy that is having a issue with a misfire on one of these as I was typing this. Spooky!!

[Pauls Automotive]

Oh one other thing I do.......since sometimes some customer can be a bit skeptical I will tell them to look it up online. I tell them to google their vehicle and to include broken spark plugs. Well since everything online MUST be true that seems to satify them as to how common this problem is and they aren't going to get a different answer from someone else.

[Tim Martin]

Repairs are 3 hours plus materials per hole. HTH.

So, possibly what I need to do is see how many break off and then give an estimate of 3 hours per hole. Would that be a good idea?

[brother bubba]

...

We did one about a year ago that one plug simply would not come out even after several careful attempts. We wound up having to pull the head. This was a good customer and we kept him in the loop the entire ordeal, so he understood what was going on. He wasn't happy about the final bill, but he realized it wasn't our fault. The trick is letting the customer know up front what he could be in for ...

...

[ricmorin]

Repairs are 3 hours plus materials per hole. HTH.

So, possibly what I need to do is see how many break off and then give an estimate of 3 hours per hole. Would that be a good idea?

It works for us. The whole idea is take your time. You can get these out usually without breaking. But sometimes stuff happens. I'd rather estimate high and come in under than present a bill that is more than I quoted.

[Tim Martin]

Well, the customer wants to pick up this F150 by lunch time so I suppose I need to decline any attempts to replace spark plugs till a later time when he can let it sit for awhile, or at least a day or 2. He is not gonna appreciate his F150 as much as he did. But brother bubba brings up an excellent point of keeping the customer informed during the process.

[liljoe]

Well, the customer wants to pick up this F150 by lunch time so I suppose I need to decline any attempts to replace spark plugs till a later time when he can let it sit for awhile, or at least a day or 2. He is not gonna appreciate his F150 as much as he did. But brother bubba brings up an excellent point of keeping the customer informed during the process.

Also about it NOT being our fault, I didn't build it, buy it, or break it! Do not yell at me cause Ford screwed up..........

[steven kiser]

I crack them, load the port with pb blaster and wait a while. Then i hit them with an 3/8ths impact air wrench. Trick here is once they're moving don't stop. Never had one brake this way.

[liljoe]

I crack them, load the port with pb blaster and wait a while. Then i hit them with an 3/8ths impact air wrench. Trick here is once they're moving don't stop. Never had one brake this way.

After reading one of your older posts on the subject, I started doing that as well, the IR Hammerhead works wonders for this.......

[Tim Martin]

I crack them, load the port with pb blaster and wait a while. Then i hit them with an 3/8ths impact air wrench. Trick here is once they're moving don't stop. Never had one brake this way.

After reading one of your older posts on the subject, I started doing that as well, the IR Hammerhead works wonders for this.......

Interesting. The tsb from Ford says specifically not to use air tools for spark plug removal. And here you guys do it that way. Wow.

[liljoe]

I crack them, load the port with pb blaster and wait a while. Then i hit them with an 3/8ths impact air wrench. Trick here is once they're moving don't stop. Never had one brake this way.

After reading one of your older posts on the subject, I started doing that as well, the IR Hammerhead works wonders for this.......

Interesting. The tsb from Ford says specifically not to use air tools for spark plug removal. And here you guys do it that way. Wow.

If you look in the tip system from Mitchell yo will find that several techs have posted tips relating to these plugs, many of them use the impact to yank them out. One tech is from a Frod dealer and he said that is how he gets them out as well. Before the discussion here befroe where Steve mentioned using an impact I had not heard of anyone trying this. I used to do the de-carbon procedure then crack plugs and soak them with PB and sea foam mixture, let set and when removing plugs, work them back and forth to keep the carbon from balling up and causing the plug to bind then break. Steve mentoned the impact thing and we discussed it back and forth and decided that the trick is the hammering from the impact knocks the carbon loose in small enough pieces for it to not bind the plug in the hole, the same for rocking the plug back and forth. Just do not use steady turning when removing them. BTW, Have also had several techs mention the Champion plugs causing a misfire and having to replace them with Motorcraft to get it running right.

[steven kiser]

Talked with a Ford tech a while ago and the thought at the dealer was Ford didn't want an issue with the heads so the engineers decided the how to proceedure opting to have the plug break in the head. Apparently as Bill Clinton sees it if the plug breaks then it's not a head issue therefore warranty can be denied. If they admitted it was a head issue imagine how much aluminum scrap would be in detroit.....

[Tim Martin]

Bill Clinton?

[steven kiser]

Bill Clinton?

Come on man. This one is a no brainer. Clinton vs Monica and Bills definition of ------------ come on now....... it's not considered a sexual relation, a common slang term used in describing a Lewinsky.

[Tim Martin]

Senior moment on my part steve. Now I get the connection.

[mopwrforme]

[sbcauto]

We Quote Book Time & Say 1/2-1 Hour For Each Plug That Breaks. We Also Mention That If Plug Breaks Head Removal is always A Possability. Out Of A Few Hundred Time We Changed These Plugs I Have Had Two Where The Heads Had To Be Pulled. This Causes A 5000.00 Bill. We Always Let Customer Know this Can Happen