2001 Dodge PU - Cummins Diesel 5.9L

[slowtech]

Our shop has recently decided to venture into diesel repair. We've been doing gas rigs for 30 years.

Today we have a 2001 Dodge 5.9 with head gasket seeping coolant and 250,000 miles. My question: is this a tech beware type of job or ok to do a head gasket. What kind of suprises should we expect or recommendations do we need. Our techs are capable, just in new territory.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks, Tom.

[Tim Martin]

Get head surface resurfaced. Make sure to use OEM Cummins gaskets. Install new head bolts and thermostat. Retorque head bolts and readjust valves at about 1,000 miles. The first one you do will take quite abit longer than Labor Estimater says. We have done a number of these and once you get familiar with them they are a piece of cake.

[steven kiser]

A point of caution here, since i got hit by this one. You may want to ask the customer if the fuel supply update has been performed. If the lift pump is attached to the drivers side rear of the engine block it hasen't and these pumps have an issie of not being able to lift fuel to the injector head. It only takes a few minutes of dry cranking to trash the head. If it hasn't been done you may want to bring it to their attention. The increased power is another plus. Another tip here, ya ya i know, here goes Steve, but there is an issue with shifting at highway speeds that is caused by the routing of the wiring harness. This should be mentioned as well just to cover yourself from it never did that before.

[Tim Martin]

It only takes a few minutes of dry cranking to trash the head.

At the risk of revealing my ignorance, I am wondering how this happens. It appears that I have something to learn on these engines we work on so much.

[steven kiser]

The lift pump on the block was a bad idea and if prime was lost couldn't recover fast enough to supply the fuel to the injector pump. the pump rely's on the fuel as a lubricant. There is never an issue unless the tank is run dry or prime is lost. This is why i mentioned it here. If it looses prime during the head gasket replacement it may trash the injector pump (head).

[Tim Martin]

The lift pump on the block was a bad idea and if prime was lost couldn't recover fast enough to supply the fuel to the injector pump. the pump rely's on the fuel as a lubricant. There is never an issue unless the tank is run dry or prime is lost. This is why i mentioned it here. If it looses prime during the head gasket replacement it may trash the injector pump (head).

After rereading your post, I understand what you have in mind. Yes, I can totally agree. Good point made steve.

[brianp87]

weve done alot of lift pumps on the block and in the tank conversions. I can say maybe we have been lucky but have never had issues with the ones put back on the block. I do recomned highly that the customers replace the fuel filters often. We did an head recently on one and it was warped alot.

[steven kiser]

When i broke down and put the update in my truck the increased power was unbelievable. On the highway when i get into the pedal it wants to fly.

[brianp87]

when we get them they dont run ususally so I can not tell if the power is better. I do know that if you put a manual trans inj pump in place of a automatic one you get a few more hp

[Tim Martin]

Well, we are aware of the fuel supply issues this arrangement on the Dodge pk tks has had. And at the risk of raising the ire of fellow shop owners on this forum, we will not install the in tank fuel module available from Chrysler because of continuing fuel supply issues. On some trucks it works ok but on others it is poor. So, we install an aftermarket pump with filter(s) on the frame rail that works quite well. We also bypass the filter on the engine. I realize there are some shops that will not do this and I respect them for this however we have been able to lengthen the life of the VP44 injector pumps on these engines considerably by adding more available pressure and volume to them.

[steven kiser]

I see your point and may be willing to do it on my truck but when it comes to this much money my inclination is o.e.m.

[Tim Martin]

Actually steve, there is not much difference in price between the aftermarket pump or an OEM Module. For the difference in pump volume and pressure most every owner chooses the aftermarket one. However, we do respect the wishes of the customer.

[steven kiser]

Is the aftermarket one a tank module? The only reason i say oem, is a fall back in case of failure. One of my issues (one of a multitude) is on the off chance i put something into a vehicle that isn't oem or a replacement quality part and it fails i'm open criticism. I'm trying to be clear hear and am just muddling things up. The update calls for a drop in module and by passing the pump on the block. My issue is that if i installed a pump on the frame instead of an oem or oem design and it failed another shop would be in a position to try to degrade me. I once worked for someone that would install the absolute cheapest parts and charge for the best quality. It really bothered me and i guess that's what is guiding me now. Maybe i'm just set in my ways and fall back on my old saying of "if it wasn't needed it wouldn't be there". A tech i hired was leaving little things off of vehicles when he worked on them. I asked why and he said it wasn't needed. I pointed out that if the manufacturer didn't feel it was necessary it wouldn't be there. If they could get away without using 5 washers on each vehicle they would. A point i picked up in a business school was American Airlines studied all the garbage coming off the planes and discovered that only 10% of the people were eating the olive in the salad. They stopped using olives and saved if i remember correctly over 100 k. this was years ago and i'm not 100% on the figure but i know it was substantial. Obviously the squandered it other places but then again that seems to be the way big business is.

[Tim Martin]

Steve, your interest in preserving the integrity of your business is certainly a valid one and one that we also are concerned about. In relation to the fuel transfer pumps, the ones we install are brand names of FASS, AirDog, and Raptor pumps. And, no, they are not intank modules. Usually what we do is to drop the tank and install a larger drop tube for more fuel volume. The fuel gauge sender unit remains intact. Then these pumps are installed midway on the inside of the left frame rail. In situations where the customer wants the fuel system to be OEM, we respect that and install what the customer wants. Generally speaking if we install the aftermarket pumps, the customer has good knowledge of what we are doing and can pass information along to other shops that may need to diagnose or service these systems. Then too, the manufacturer is only a phone call away and can provide additional help if needed. Thus far, we have had very good results with installing these systems and plan to continue offering them as options where needed, not only on the Dodge but other diesel applications as well. Information on these brands I mentioned can be gotten by visiting their websites.

Back to the issue of other shops working on a vehicle after us. I have had that experience already and at times the other shop will call and give me an earful of gobbldy gook which translated indicates that they often do not understand what is going on. When I explain things then they often retract what they said and go on with repairs. And, at times one will call and be as arrogant as the day is long and qualify me by the most colorful vocabulary known to man. I place the phone on speaker phone and let the others hear this. That turns out to be the laugh of the day. Such fellows reveal more about their lack of perception and understanding than our perceived mistake does. Oh well. Coffee is ready. Gotta go.

[slowtech]

Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure what to expect in regards to component life i.e. injectors, valves & guides, seals. I hear these engines are good for a lot of miles. Will do on head bolts & OE gaskets.