Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? *****FIXED!*****

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Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? *****FIXED!*****

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

Hello everyone, first post here and I hope I am placing it in the correct area. I have searched the forum and knowledge base every way I can think of for this problem and come up empty handed. I suspect this is a "localized" problem, but I've got Tech Support pointing at my network/computer settings and my IT company stating it is internal to Shop Manager (at least this specific installation of it).

The problem is: We have SE (6.5.54) on two stations, the shop office "Host" where most orders are written and most shop business is done, and a "workstation" in my office (GM of the dealership, mostly for oversight, approving estimates and helping out where/when I can). We have access to five electronic catalogs, and all five work fine on my "workstation". However, the FirstCall and RepairLink catalogs both throw certificate errors when opening on the "Host" machine in the shop.

The FirstCall catalog opens the browser window and warns "Warning: revocation information is not available for this site" and then asks if you wish to continue. If you click on details, it mentions something about a GoDaddy certificate issuer. You can click on the OK/Continue button, and you get about 12-15 identical pop-ups in a row. But if you click through them all, then you get the FirstCall site and catalog and it works just fine. You can transfer your parts to an RO, and even order the parts electronically with no problems. After you have gone through that ordeal once, I believe you will not receive that error again until you exit SE and then re-open it. When our Independent Rep encountered this while setting us up, he called tech support who said they'd never seen it before, must be network or computer settings on our end. I told him I would have our IT people get on it. Two weeks later, having exhausted every conceivable update/tweak/setting on both the machine and our SonicWall firewall, they intercepted the web address the catalog was opening, and copied that address directly into Internet Explorer on the same machine and it opened just fine, with no problems/warnings whatsoever! They tell me that SE is in fact using Explorer to open the catalogs, so if it works in regular IE it should be working in the mini-browser within SE unless there is a problem with some library it may be supposed to load?

Today, I noticed for the first time that our Rep hadn't set up the RepairLink catalog on the shop machine for some reason, although it was installed and working on my "workstation" (we are still figuring all of this out, just transitioning to electronic R.O's). So, I downloaded the catalog installer, closed out SE and installed the RepairLink catalog. Opened up SE, turned on RepairLink and tried to open it. This time, instead of a pop-up, I just get a full white page with a warning that there is a problem with this site's certificate, and it will not allow me to go any further.

I have logged onto the machine as the domain admin, to eliminate the possibility of it being a "privileges" issue, and exact same result. Also, the shop user and I have identical user profiles/domain privileges. I know SE isn't supported on domains, but since it works fine on my workstation I would be shocked if the domain was the issue. My workstation is accessing the database on the "Host" machine over the domain.

Again, the other three catalogs work perfectly in the shop, as does the FirstCall once you've clicked through 15 billion warnings and they all work fine on my workstation. Anyone see this before? I apologize for no screen shots, it's 11:30pm here, I have been searching the forums and knowledge base since I got home and didn't take any screenshots at work. But I decided I wanted to try to get the ball rolling here in case it would be any help. If anyone thinks screenshots will help, please describe what you want pics of and I'll figure out how to attach them. Should I just try tech support again? They seemed a little dismissive when my Rep called them, and once when I called them (on a different matter). At that time, it did look like a likely network/permissions problem. I'm beginning to wonder if something glitched on the catalog installs, but I can't figure out how to uninstall them to try it again.

Sorry about the wall of text! At least I used paragraphs! :lol:

Rick

<<EDIT: I have finally resolved the issue, please see my post below dated March 23, 2015>>
Last edited by ECAS-Wichita on Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ricmorin »

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum.

It certainly does sound like something on that PC. I have never encountered anything similar, however. Perhaps others will chime in.
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by Silky7 »

Rick,

Please tell me the time and date was verified on the computer with the certificate errors. When multiple certs fail, that's often the cause.
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

ricmorin wrote:Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum.

It certainly does sound like something on that PC. I have never encountered anything similar, however. Perhaps others will chime in.
Thanks for the welcome.
Silky7 wrote:Rick,

Please tell me the time and date was verified on the computer with the certificate errors. When multiple certs fail, that's often the cause.
The time and date on the computer in question are correct. Both the working and non-working computers sync their clocks/calendars off of the server, so should be identical.

I have thought and thought about this, and in another post somewhere I saw someone being advised to make sure they had closed out SE on all computers before installing a catalog. I believe my station was out of SE when the catalogs were installed, but I am not 100% certain. I turned off the repairlink and firstcall catalogs on the "broken" machine, made sure both computers were out of SE and downloaded and ran both catalog installers again. I saw no error messages, both appeared to complete normally. I could find no instructions on removing the old installs first, so I just installed over them I suppose. Got back into SE, turned the catalogs back on and got the same results.

I will attempt to add screenshots of both messages here:
RepairLink Error
RepairLink Error
RepairLing_error.JPG (38.13 KiB) Viewed 7587 times
FirstCall Warning
FirstCall Warning
FistCall_error.JPG (63 KiB) Viewed 7587 times
Yet my IT people tell me they could intercept the FirstCall address, paste it into a regular browser and open the catalog in Internet Explorer without any problem (at the time, I hadn't noticed the missing repairlink catalog, so they didn't mess with it). Any insight or recommendations anyone can offer would be much appreciated.

Rick
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ricmorin »

Are you running a domain? A domain server can apply security attributes to the computers it controls.
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by Silky7 »

Yes, you're looking at number of different possibles. As Ric mentioned, it could be permission related. If not, you can try to re-install the root certificates from the catalog sites.

Another possibility, and the worst case, is you've had some malware alter some root security certificate publisher information.

The RepairLink Shop screenshot you have there is simply an IE-framed window, so if the exact secure address (https) is copied into the browser, the results should be the same.
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

ricmorin wrote:Are you running a domain? A domain server can apply security attributes to the computers it controls.
Yes, we are running a domain. And our first thought was "per computer" permissions (since mine works fine). However, my IT co. assures me they have eliminated any block on the machine in question from reaching these sites. Also, regarding the FirstCall site:
ECAS-Wichita wrote:Two weeks later, having exhausted every conceivable update/tweak/setting on both the machine and our SonicWall firewall, they intercepted the web address the catalog was opening, and copied that address directly into Internet Explorer on the same machine and it opened just fine, with no problems/warnings whatsoever!
Silky7 wrote:Yes, you're looking at number of different possibles. As Ric mentioned, it could be permission related. If not, you can try to re-install the root certificates from the catalog sites.
My IT company has installed the certificate several times, both automatically and by manually selecting a destination. He has, at times, been able to get it down to only one warning pop-up on the FirstCall site.
Silky7 wrote:Another possibility, and the worst case, is you've had some malware alter some root security certificate publisher information.
While I cannot personally rule this out, we do run enterprise-class anti-virus on all of our workstations in addition to the SonicWall. I would hope this could not go undetected.
Silky7 wrote:The RepairLink Shop screenshot you have there is simply an IE-framed window, so if the exact secure address (https) is copied into the browser, the results should be the same.
As I mentioned in the quote above, they were able to open the FirstCall link in Internet Explorer without issue. They were not aware of the RepairLink site at the time, so haven't tried it. But, I have contacted them to remote in and do the same with that link and see if it works fine in its own browser as well.

I don't want either of you to think I'm just shooting down ideas, I really appreciate the efforts to help! I was hoping someone would see the problem, and say "Oh I had that, here is what we did to fix it". If my IT co. is able to log in, intercept the Repairlink catalog address, and open it in standalone Internet Explorer on the same machine (which I am betting will happen), what should I do next?
  1. Call Tech Support
  2. Blow away the SE install and try reinstalling
  3. Reinstall windows
  4. Take the computer out back and shoot it
  5. All of the above
(right now, I'm personally leaning toward option D) :roll:

Thanks again for your efforts!

Rick
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by Silky7 »

Rick,

It's definitely not related to the shop management software. The catalog interfaces are web-based, so that's where the cert. resides. However, if you want to cover some bases as far as certificates go, we have an installer (certificatesinstaller.exe) you can run in your c:\programdata\m1-sk\certificates\ directory. It will re-install all the certificates needed for all Mitchell-related software and sites.

Beyond that, if your IT is at a loss, I'd personally move to option C and wipe the machine. We don't support domain environments in Tech Support, so calling in this case isn't the best option.
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

Silky7 wrote: Rick,

It's definitely not related to the shop management software. The catalog interfaces are web-based, so that's where the cert. resides. However, if you want to cover some bases as far as certificates go, we have an installer (certificatesinstaller.exe) you can run in your c:\programdata\m1-sk\certificates\ directory. It will re-install all the certificates needed for all Mitchell-related software and sites.
Well, I am certainly willing to try running the .exe. I have searched all over http://www.m1faqs.com/fix/index.htm and http://www.m1faqs.com/fix/SE/index.htm but I cannot find a file with that name. Am I overlooking it? Could you please link me to it or point me in the right direction?
Silky7 wrote:Beyond that, if your IT is at a loss, I'd personally move to option C and wipe the machine. We don't support domain environments in Tech Support, so calling in this case isn't the best option.
Unfortunately, that means if I cannot figure this out on my own my independent rep and I are going to have to have a discussion about why I wasn't advised of the lack of support for domains before subscribing to the software. I believe failure to disclose that material fact prior to selling me the service constitutes plenty of cause to void our contract <edited to add: I don't think our rep intentionally withheld the information, I don't think he knew enough to tell us>. I hope that isn't what it comes down to, I like what I've seen so far. But I imagine there are similar options out there with domain support, I will just have to look again now that I know what questions to ask (rather than assume I would be told of any significant roadblocks).

Thanks again for the suggestions, and please point me in the direction of that certificatesinstaller.exe file.

Rick
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by Silky7 »

Rick,

The file is already on your computer. If the program was installed on the c: local disk, the path is c:\programdata\m1-sk\certificates\ — it's a hidden directory, so you'll need hidden files visible temporarily to see it.
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

Silky7 wrote:Rick,

The file is already on your computer. If the program was installed on the c: local disk, the path is c:\programdata\m1-sk\certificates\ — it's a hidden directory, so you'll need hidden files visible temporarily to see it.
Thank you, I was speaking with one of the support people with our IT company this morning on the drive in to work, and he said something that made me realize I had misread your post. I thought you were telling me to run the executable in that directory, not that it was located there.

I found the file and ran it. All that I could see was a very brief black "command prompt" type window opened, I saw nothing within it, and then it closed. This took literally less than one second. I tried running it again as an admin, since I wasn't sure what I should be expecting to see, and then opened SE back up and tried the FirstCall and RepairLink catalogs again. Same exact thing, certificate warnings, FirstCall will let me agree through them, the RepairLink site just simply stops me at a warning page that there is a problem with the sites certificate.

While I was speaking with our IT company on the phone, I explained to him that I had installed another catalog on the Shop machine which I had on my computer and worked fine, but that it too would not work on the Shop computer. I had him intercept the address that the RepairLink catalog button is trying to open, and try it in a stand-alone Internet Explorer window. Just like the FirstCall catalog, it opens right up to a logon screen.

So, I don't understand. Clearly, the computer itself is not the problem, it can open both links in IE without issue. It is only when attempting to open them under SE that it throws cert warnings. Running the certificatesinstaller.exe did not seem to have any effect on the issue. My rep is going to be here in a little while, I don't know what he will do. He is talking about getting FirstCall on the phone, but I am fairly certain that there is no problem on their end. I believe it is entirely limited to the installation of SE on this machine.

Any other suggestions?


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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by Silky7 »

My only remaining suggestion is to start considering the amount of time you want to continue to sink into trying fix it vs. wiping and reloading the machine. :wink:
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

Silky7 wrote:The RepairLink Shop screenshot you have there is simply an IE-framed window, so if the exact secure address (https) is copied into the browser, the results should be the same.
But that is just it, this computer can load both the FirstCall and RepairLink catalogs in regular IE without any issue whatsoever. It is only when trying to open them from within SE that any warnings occur. Doesn't that indicate the problem is not with Windows or anything to do with the domain, but is strictly something to do with the SE install?
Silky7 wrote:My only remaining suggestion is to start considering the amount of time you want to continue to sink into trying fix it vs. wiping and reloading the machine. :wink:
If the only software on the machine were SE, I would have already done it. But there is lot of other software on the machine, it would involve two other companies and basically be a full day job to reload it, update it, and reinstall everything on it. And everything else on the machine is working fine. And SE works fine on the workstation in my office.

Since the machine in question is the Host, and I do a backup on exit to a mapped drive on the server, if I was to uninstall SE and reinstall it, would I be able to restore the database from the backup on the server? And if I were to do that, what is the likelihood that I would simply be restoring the same problem?

I realize you may be frustrated with my reluctance to re-install Windows. I assure you, the frustration on this end is considerably greater. I appreciate your continuing to attempt to help.


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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? FirstCall/Repairl

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

Ok. I decided to go with the possibility of corrupted Windows root certificates being the source of the problem. So I completely uninstalled Shop Manager from the current shop computer (after making sure I had one last backup to the server). I then installed Shop Manager (Host) on a completely different computer in a little used office elsewhere in the dealership with the idea that I would just swap the computers out if it worked. Once I had the installation complete and activated the software, I ran the catalog installers for the catalogs I needed. Then I restored the backup from the server using the utility provided.

All of the data is there, I can still access all of our catalogs from my "workstation" computer. And the new "Host" computer does EXACTLY THE SAME THING as the computer I just uninstalled SE from! Yet I can still go directly to the websites in question in IE without any warnings/problems whatsoever.

So clearly, the problem is something to do with the way the browser window within SE is handling those sites versus the way regular IE is handling them on our particular system. Or something about the way the catalog installers are behaving on these machines vs. the one at my desk.

So, I have to absolve SE of being the source of the problem, but I don't know what to try next. Any ideas what IE security settings might be throwing certificate warnings in the "browserlets" in SE vs. having no problems in full-blown IE? Banging away on a computer at work at 10:00 on a Friday night is not my definition of a great weekend. :)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can throw my way.

Rick

<Edit: I just realized one difference between the machine that works fine and the two that don't. My computer is a little older, and is Windows 7 Pro 32bit, whereas the other two computers are somewhat newer and run Windows 7 Pro 64 bit. Would that make any difference?>
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Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? ***FIXED!***

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

Well, I am back to report that I have resolved the issue, in case anyone else ever has the same problem and searches up this thread. I hate having a problem and finding an exact description of it online, but then the thread just mysteriously ends without a resolution. The problem had nothing to do with the fact that we are running a domain, nor was it a corrupt Windows or Shop Manager installation. It was our firewall, something that everyone should be running if you have a network with confidential customer information on it connected to the internet. Especially if you are processing credit cards, it's pretty much a PCI compliance requirement. Of course, different firewalls have different settings, so not all firewalls would cause this issue. We have ours screwed down pretty tightly. If you are experiencing certificate warnings in SE when attempting to open up catalogs, and you have either a hardware or software firewall on your network, read on for a possible solution.

The RepairLink catalog didn't even open far enough to tell us anything other than the site had a problem with it's security certificates and stopped there. The FirstCall catalog was throwing certificate errors within SE mentioning the godaddy.com domain, so my IT company unblocked the certificates subdomain on godaddy.com. This did not help. However, they decided that since they could access both catalog websites in regular Internet Explorer and that they had unblocked the godaddy.com certificate subdomain that it couldn't be the firewall and must be something wrong within Shop Manager.

After two weekends and many, many hours in between installing and uninstalling the software on different computers around the dealership, I became convinced that the reason all of the catalogs worked on my computer and not on the others was because my and the CEO's computers were exempted from most of the firewall domain blocking. So, I again asked my IT company exempt the shop computer from all of the SonicWall domain blocking and voilà, both catalogs opened perfectly. He then reduced it to exempting only the godaddy.com domain, and the problem remained resolved. Now, you may be thinking this seems like the obvious thing to have tried from the beginning. And I totally agree, that's why it's what I asked them to do when I first called them. I assumed when my IT company told me they had ruled out the firewall that this was what they had tried. But that was not the case.

Apparently, the catalog installers are registering some certificates whose publishers on the godaddy domain are not located within the typical certificates subdomain. So, since the rest of godaddy.com was still blocked by our firewall under the "Web Hosting" category, when Shop Manager was attempting to verify the FirstCall and RepairLink catalog sites were legitimate and their certificates had not been revoked, the firewall was preventing the SE browser from reaching these certificate publishers. Thus, the certificate warnings and our inability to access the catalog websites.

So if you are having similar issues, the first thing to do is try temporarily bypassing your firewall and seeing if that eliminates the problem and then try to narrow down your firewall exceptions to as little as possible which still allows the catalogs to work. The certificate publishers are not necessarily located in the certificate subdomain of the parent domain. Obviously not all of the possible catalogs use the same certificate addresses, because three of the five I have installed were working fine right off of the bat, so the problem domains may vary by which catalog you are having problems with.

Good Luck, and I hope this helps someone someday. I'd hate for you to have to waste the time I've wasted over the last week chasing gremlins. :roll:


Rick
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? *****FIXED!*****

Post by timbre4 »

Thanks for posting the resolution! :wink:
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? *****FIXED!*****

Post by Rich »

Thanks for posting the fix. It may save some one a ton of time,

By the way, I vote for the "D" option, but wanted to wait until your trouble was behind you. I am willing to send ammo in exchange for the ability to see it on video. 8)
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Re: Electronic Catalog Certificate errors? *****FIXED!*****

Post by ECAS-Wichita »

Rich wrote:By the way, I vote for the "D" option, but wanted to wait until your trouble was behind you. I am willing to send ammo in exchange for the ability to see it on video. 8)
:lol:
Sorry for the late response, I just saw your reply. I appreciate the offer, but I've got the ammo covered! However, now that I've got the darn thing working, nothing is going to happen to that computer! I appreciate everyone putting up with my ranting. We are really getting the hang of the software now, and it is proving to be the time saver we were hoping for.

Rick
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