Specifications Index Top 10 - Comments

[Matt400]

In no specific order my wish list is:

• Firing order
  Fuel pressure
  Oil pressure
  Wheel torque
  Spark plug type & gap
  Exterior bulb numbers
  Alignment
  EPA rated mpg
  Tire pressure
  Belt routing

Wow.. 2004 Chev Silverado H/D was looking for wheel lug torque and tried the usual routine of looking in-
* Brakes
* Axles
* Suspension
* Wheel Alignment
* Wheel & Tire always looking for the "torque specs chart" you would normally find on the right but nothing. Tried a google with 107 results returned but nothing in those first few pages, not wanting to read through 107 results I kept persistent and found that under the * Wheel & Tire heading the Torque specifications label was changed to read just Specifications. I had overlooked that thinking I want torque specs not the wheel size

So.. just a bump on the thread in hopes we will get this one day.

[Nick T]

Matt,

The wheel lug nut torque is listed in the Specifiacations Index articles that Tim mentions in his first post.

A question I would have is when do you need specs for the current model year cars. 2010s are out, when do you start seeing them in your shops?

Nick.

[fortknoxx]

we start seeing them 3000-5000 miles for tire rotation and lof

[Nick T]

Also for those who responded with "firing order", what are you actually looking for?

Firing order is the most searched phrase in the product and easily found. But what we found was that people were actually looking for something else, such as the cylinder identification or plug wire routing. We added quick lookup articles for firing order and cylinder identification but that lead to some confusion as people expected to find wire routing or coil numbering. We always need to ask 5 times why people ask for something.

[ricmorin]

Generally, when I ask for firing order, I am looking for where Cylinder 1 is. That's most often. Then it would be for ignition cable routing after that.

[steven kiser]

ok, here's my input on this. there are so many shops that are looking for quick reference to make it virtually impossible to be a hero. my top ten would include maintenance reset procedures. we use torque rods and just go by the chart on the wall. if a person had specialty wheels we always torque to the alloy or steel specifications or just a flat 60lbs. the after market locks get a flat 60lbs. we use a quick reference guide offered by motors that we conform our needs to. it's easier and more productive to just make it work that way. i had a tech that would spend way to much time researching things to infinity. specific torque patterns etc. yes they are important and i'm not minimizing the importance but on the other hand it would be cost effective to use the quick reference guide. i would purchase a guide from mitchell in text form for each tech. i know for a fact it would save a bunch of time. again a ramble because of my absence.

[Nick T]

ok, here's my input on this. there are so many shops that are looking for quick reference to make it virtually impossible to be a hero...

This says more than you know. We're always running to try and satisfy the loudest group of techs and sometimes that causes problems for the rest of them. I'm always trying to fight for thorough investigations into what people are really asking for instead of just jumping on something and doing it. You'll see that in the next update. People were frustrated with the search when we changed it to Google and now we're trying to get people not to use the search. In the mean time, we've taken several steps to make the search work better. We have addressed some data issues but much more needs to be done.

If we keep making new lists of the data people tell use they want to get to quickly, then we'll just have too many lists. I ran the beta test for the new update but just haven't gotten much feedback from testers. I'll keep trying though.

By the way, for those that don't know me, I run the tip system in OnDemand5.com and ShopKey5.com. I've worked at Mitchell for 18 years and have been heavily involved in the OnDemand program the whole time. Back in the days when we had a DOS program, cars were much simpler and there was a lot less information to cover. Plus, techs could do just about anything to fix a car with little information from us. Now there is so much info to process and deliver and every manufacturer does it differently. Some of them are working hard to keep the aftermarket out and that has caused us problems.

I'll be paying more attention to this forum since we're trying to get more OnDemand and ShopKey users to join up here.

[steven kiser]

nick, good to hear from you. i know from experience it's impossible to make all happy. what i want may or may not work for others. i will conform to most programs because i pretty much understand it is what it is. the google look up threw me for a loop. i grew up with data and specification books and could blow through them with out an issue. i got accustomed to the newer version of where specs and repair information was located in the discs. a bit different than what i was use to but that's the way it goes. the google look up is in my opinion, (very important point about opinion here is that i may not agree with yours but will honor your opinion because like mine, yours is just as important) takes me to places i could care less about. like i've stated i can and do adapt but the google search was just like the commercial for twitter and i've had issues with the techs following the google path way off point. i purchased another repair system and use that primarily now. if it wasn't for the people in the forum along with the greatest support people (most important) i would have pulled the plug. i sometimes feel like when i just become accustomed with the operating system things change. i spoke to a buddy of mine that owns a shop in another town and asked him what he thought and he felt the same as i do. we're of the older generation of owners and techs and pretty much understand we'll never be real happy with the systems available today for today's owners and techs but the diagnostic system through google is a bit over the top. i like to see just the diagnostic and repair information not a six mile long paragraph with the word torque highlighted a thousand times and get so exasperated i dust off a book. that's why i have another system that adds to my operation cost. would be nice but not expected if there was a happy medium. i won't use google and question why i'm paying for a program that's on google and isn't google available to all on the internet and if that's so people that aren't paying for mitchell diagnostics being able to use it.................if this is true it's like me lending another person at the card table money giving them the chance to win all mine..............................................

[Matt400]

A question I would have is when do you need specs for the current model year cars. 2010s are out, when do you start seeing them in your shops?

Hi Nick,
I see them pretty quickly for oil changes and alignments mostly. A local body shop sends us new cars they have repaired for alignments and we also get them direct from the customer if tire wear is off. I think maybe they get tired down so tight on the transport trucks they are sold out of alignment... not sure just a thought but they are not right. I been using the quick specs allot since posting about this- thanks!

[Matt400]

Also for those who responded with "firing order", what are you actually looking for?

Hi Nick,
Most times for me its bank identification.
With the reference during diagnostics to Bank 1 and Bank 2, I will look up firing order to "see" a picture of the block and which side has #1 plug so I know what side bank one is. Should I not be looking there for Bank identification?
Other times but not as often I look that up for routing of a new set of wires.

[steven kiser]

Also for those who responded with "firing order", what are you actually looking for?

Hi Nick,
Most times for me its bank identification.
With the reference during diagnostics to Bank 1 and Bank 2, I will look up firing order to "see" a picture of the block and which side has #1 plug so I know what side bank one is. Should I not be looking there for Bank identification?
Other times but not as often I look that up for routing of a new set of wires.

a real quickie here. on most of the newer engines you'll see one head forward of the other. not much but a noticeable difference, approximately an inch. i have run into bulletins lexuses that tell you how to determine which bank is one and like posted here it's the head with #1. (i'm wondering about the newer tech's, there has to be a tsb on bank identification ). there is almost always a head forward and that's bank 1. on another point here, nick made a good point, i know it's rare for a Mitchell person, (no i'm just kidding Tim, and all the rest of you guys. you do a great job.) it's very difficult to stream line a system that will work for all. i may go six mos where all i see is ford super duties then the fuso's, w4's, 3500's, etc will hit. yes during these times i'm still working on 10-15 cars a day. my needs change three or four times a year as far as repair goes. we have new trucks come in for service and are accustomed to having no or little information available. i've found the oem program through mitchell to be a life saver. i can go back a year or two and by comparing part #'s i can relatively easily muddle through. a big thing i do is i leave a paper trail for that particular vehicle and load it under favorites in google. for me, my biggest and most important issue is maintenance lights. i simply need to be able to turn them off.......

[Matt400]

on most of the newer engines you'll see one head forward of the other.

I know but many times the heads are covered with plastic trim pieces and various other brackets & stuff. My MOD is on my tool box right in the bay so only a few feet away is the keyboard. It gives me reassurance to look it up with a few key strokes.

[steven kiser]

it always feels good to have any type of confirmation.............when i start seeing trends developing i'll keep detailed diagnostic sheets, laminate them and put into a binder. i guess i still have the "old school way's" imbedded in my cranial cavity as well as the retention ability of a blonde on speed. i'll forget the simplest things in the space between the computer and the vehicle.

[DCC]

I would all the above with a better seach engine to get to it directly.

[timbre4]

I would all the above with a better seach engine to get to it directly.

The purpose of this discussion is to identify and better organize the specifications & common procedures for easy access thru direct links without a search function.

[DCC]

I would all the above with a better seach engine to get to it directly.

The purpose of this discussion is to identify and better organize the specifications & common procedures for easy access thru direct links without a search function.

Ok then let me see if I understand what you want, a better way to organize and identify them easily, you are talking about some type of call up menu for the most comonly used repair data. Well if you look at the way you can look up TSB's when using the left side seach list, why not use that same format to cue your more repetitive and needed info such as, Brake Specifications, Charging Systems, Engine, Differential &Transmission Torque Spec's, Tune-up Spec's & Firing Orders (coil resistance info, fuel pressures etc), Drivecycle, Error code definitions, Fuse Panel Id & locations. So under each catagory you can get to a sort of sub list of information.

[timbre4]

Yes, search should not be a requirement to access it quickly.

[cgt454]

THE FEW I LIKE TO SEE ARE: 1. FUEL PRESSURE, 2. FIRING ORDER, 3. TORQUE SPECS, 4. OIL PRESSURE, 5. A/C SYSTEM CAPACITY, 6. A/C PRESSURE SPECS, 7. BRAKE SPECS SUCH AS ROTOR THICKNESS, 8. ALIGNMENT SPECS AND 9. ANYTHING TO DO WITH DTCS.

THANKS, HOPE THIS HELPS

[timbre4]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your input!

[Matt400]

Charging Systems,

Reminds me of one I forgot to ask for.. CCA "Cold Cranking Amps"