1956 Olds Super 88 Overhaul

[Tim Martin]

This neighbor has a 1956 Olds Super 88 with a 324 engine in it and he wants me to give him an estimate on the labor for engine R&R and rebuilding it. I have no idea what would be a fair labor estimate. Does any one of you know or know where I could go to get an estimate for time? I really want the job. It will remind me of when my Dad & I worked together.

[steven kiser]

i have occasions like this. on some applications i call jasper and ask for a r&r reman price. send them the engine and they'll tag it and rebuild it with the same parts. it's a complete tear down. they'll tag each part and make sure they all go back in the same block. call for price and time frame. as far as the labor goes, if this is just a r&r it would be a time on. i wouldn't get tied down to a price. take into consideration the hard wiring that's going to possibly disintegrate along with the generator, fuel pump, starter, carb, that are going to have to be rebuilt or replaced. you may look at this as a labor of love. i strongly suggest you don't. it's a business venture only. want to remember the times working on things with your dad, buy and old clunker that's the same make and model of one you did work on with your dad. just sitting in it may be all you need........................................another point here that i feel is important. make damn sure the customer knows they may end up with a sweet running engine but other things may not be so sweet. some people think that getting "it" running will make it a usable vehicle. maybe they're trying to get that same feeling you are. i always have a sit down and try to figure out what they're looking for. it may not be viable and you'll get sucked into a sh*t storm.

[Tim Martin]

Ok. I need some input on this one. It has developed into what I might define as someones nightmare.

We got the engine back together, installed in the vehicle. It runs great - no issues. Last week, the owner stops in and wants me to come out and listen to this engine. At idle it is perfectly quiet. As soon as the throttle is moved it starts knocking. Badly.

We agreed to get it in and see what the issue is. Well, first thing we did was to check oil pressure with a live gauge. We got 48psi at startup on fast idle. Not bad, actually fairly decent. As the engine warmed up to operating temperature, the pressure on fast idle dropped to 40psi. Again, not bad. At idle it still was 20-22psi at operating temperature. But off idle there was this knocking noise on the bottom end.

By shorting out a cylinder at a time, we traced it to cylinder #1 - the last rod bearing to get oil pressure. So. We dropped the pan, the #1 rod cap and sure enough, the bearing is on the copper. So. We took off #2 rod cap - same thing. I took the bearings to my machine shop and their verdict was dry startup. He said to check the check valve in the oil pump. We took the oil pump down and set it on the work bench. Poured oil in the outlet port of the pump and in a few minutes the oil is through the pump and on the workbench, indicating a faulty check valve. At least it seems so. What do others think?

Another issue is that the owner wanted to supply his parts. He knows quality. Ok. So. I installed his parts. My major mistake on this job. And I am thinking this is the last job that a customer supplies the parts. There has just been too many issues.

Guys! I need some input from you as to how to handle this one.

[Jeff @ Able Auto]

He supplied the parts...he is responsible for their performance. The fella that has the VW/M.G kit car that I service supplies all the parts. He understands the consequences!

[steven kiser]

I have had issues similar to this before. What i've learned is that if i customer supplies their own parts they get a lesson on responsibilities and a total picture of all the ramifications.

Some times there is absolutely no problem, sometimes there is a small issue, while others there are catastrophic results. A great example i use in my shop is the time Mr "captain of the used parts" came in with a blown transmission in his Chevrolet wagon. He insisted on supplying a used one even after i told him i could rebuild his with a total cost of 1,200 bucks. Yes this was a while ago . No way, he wanted to know what i would charge him to replace it with him supplying the parts. I told him 300 bucks. He brought one in and we installed it. No reverse, brought another one in and we installed it made it a day. We towed it back in, took the transmission out, he took it and returned with another. Incorrect transmission so we pushed it out. He returned with a correct one and a few days later we installed it and it was fine. With fluid, towing and all the labor it cost him just under a grand. I have no problem holding my ground when it comes to this.

In this situation i would happily bring the customer over to my work bench show him the defective pump and the damage caused by it. Make sure he sees it and understands it since he's going to raise hell with the oil pump manufacturer and i would want him as educated as possible before (if) they claim it was my issue because i installed it incorrectly.

I wouldn't get flustered, angry, or even try to lower my labor price to repair the issue. It wasn't my problem, it was his. If the crank needs to come out and ground the do it. No sand paper on the face. The job needs to be redone in a prudent manner. If you decide (i know you wouldn't) or bowed to his persistence about just "cleaning it up", throwing a new pump and bearings in it and it fails then in my opinion it's your issue now.


A DEAL WAS BROKERED, A FAILURE WAS BECAUSE OF A FAULTY CUSTOMER SUPPLIED PART. THE BURDEN IS ON HIM. IF HE'S AS KNOWLEDGEABLE AS HE CLAIMS HE IS ABOUT QUALITY PARTS AND NOT JUST A CHEAP BOTTOMER HE'LL UNDERSTAND. IF HE'S A BOTTOMER AND WANTS TO MAKE IT AN ISSUE KICK HIM TO THE CURB BEFORE YOU GET IN TOO DEEP. IT'S HIS BURDEN, NOT YOURS. KEEP IT THAT WAY. Yes i was yelling

In other words don't try to be a good ****. This may be taken as a responsibility issue. My reputation is that i may be a bit more than a lot of other shops but my quality and service is second to none and if i feel an error was made by my shop i take complete responsibility for it and take care of it completely. If i say it's not my fault then there is no way it could be. I have a list of people that have agreed to allow me to give out their phone numbers regaurding warranty and responsibility issues. Both ways, some didn't get their way and others didn't. My reputation is the single most important thing i have and i will go to any length to keep it.

Basically any time you and a customer agree on a job you've entered a binding contract. Sometimes looking at it this way makes it a lot clearer.

[Tim Martin]

Does anybody know if the oiling system on this 324 Rocket engine has a check valve in it somewhere? If so, where is it located? The issue is that after engine is shut off, the oil all drains back down into the pan and we have a dry startup and engine noise till the entire system is pressurized and full of oil again.

[92zman]

can u get a oil filter with one in it.

[steven kiser]

A thought just fought it's way through the fog. I can't say with any certainty here but i seem to remember oil galley pans under the intake that held oil for start up. The issue of the oil draining back into the pan and knocking until pressure is built up doesn't make a lot of sense to me (at this level) unless it's taking the oil pump a long time to prime and pump, if this is the case it's only a matter of time until it totally fails. I believe on the older vehicles the cam bearings need to be aligned perfectly, especially in the rear or the oil pressure would be an issue. It wasn't common for the rear bearings to spin in these engines and render them junk. As far as i know the can't be re-sized because the bearing journal couldn't be machined. Now if i'm wrong i apologize, when these things come through the fog sometimes they drag things with them that don't apply to the subject. I remember we would pull the oil switch out and start the engine, if oil sprayed out we knew we had pressure right away, if it dribbled we knew we had a pump issue. On the old pumps we would occasionally run across a piece of valve stem compound that got by the pickup and got caught in the oil pump filter bypass valve. Again i'm sorry if this is jumbled with incorrect information. There was a time in my life where i mmmmmm, climbed into a bottle. If there is supposed to be an oil galley and it's missing this would defiantly cause an issue with a warm up noise as well as a pressure issue. If it's there then the next step is the cam bearings. If they're installed blocking the oil port you have an issue and again if the rear journal is junk the oil will just squirt out around it and this is the main top end feed. If i recall correctly this engine has the hollow rocker shaft or an oil feed tube that oils all the rockers and valves. This feeds off of either the front or rear cam journal. If you need detailed information i'll climb into the deep corner of the storage area and dig out an old motors book. P.M. me.