2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

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Ruger77
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2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by Ruger77 »

Was wondering if anybody has successfully replaced the water pump without a new chain and tensioner, etc.. on these engines. I always recommend timing chains, belts, etc. when replacing water pumps that are driven by them, on any engine, but sometimes customers want just the pump. Hate to turn down work, but seems like putting off the inevitable, with me potentially paying the bill. Am I being too cautious?
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by Tim Martin »

I have done this already. Actually several times. And I agree that there is some risk involved and neither do I like the feeling of not replacing the timing parts at the same time. But by the same token at times we do need the work so we have to weigh the factors involved and give it our best shot. For me it partly depends how well I know the customer as to whether or not I will do a job like this where the customer does not want to replace the timing components.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by marcdaniels »

Won't even get near it at the point the customer wants to just replace the water pump. Unless they were at another shop recently where that shop did a poor job at recommending and upselling and never told the customer to replace the water pump with a timing belt, it has a new belt. But again I don't care how bad I need the money if the customer is not willing to invest the extra $100.00 or so in a new belt I don't want to invest my extra time in doing a job that could blow up in my face. I provide a 3yr 36,000 mile parts and labor warranty on everything we do and I nor the techs like doing something for free a second time. Its your reputation on the line.

I learned long ago that you can't get all the jobs, some will say no to recommendations or additional repairs but you being that someone that has to set the standards for the quality for repairs in your shop and you have to be able to hold your head high and tell your customer this is what it is and how it should be done and we prefer it to be done that way if you want it done here. Yes you will lose jobs and maybe customers but the ones that get it will give you more than ever. Especially in this economy we are in, more and more people are keeping their vehicles and are realizing that they have to maintain them in order to continue to drive them. That does not mean to sell customers things they don't need but to courtesy check every vehicle that comes through the door and informing the customer of what we find. I used to feel nervous telling customers that they need $1000. or so in repairs but you have to overcome that and just tell them. Work on getting your customers on a maintenance program or at least recommend the factory maintenance when servicing their vehicle will help you obtain the customers and money you want.

A side note that Tim said, "neither do I like the feeling of not replacing the timing parts at the same time" if you don't like the feeling why subject yourself to that? At least when that would happen to me it always comes back to bite me. Sorry for the rambling, I just see so many shops in my area that do things half-fast it makes me want to hit them.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by Tim Martin »

The issue with this 2.7L in a Concorde is that the timing components cost about 4 times as much as the water pump. It adds several hundred dollars to the job. Having said that, I admit to agreeing with all that was said in the post by marcdaniels.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by wbuxton »

If the customer is informed of the risk, I think it is like going to the grocery store and trying to buy pasta and being told that you have to buy tomatoe sauce, garlic bread and a bottle of wine.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by liljoe »

For me it would depend on the service history of the car. These engines are known problems if not kept up like they should be. If it is nice and clewan inside with no timing chain noise, even on cold start, I might be willing to do just a water pump, other wise, I would have to do the entire job or send it down the road, even if it means i kick myself for the lost money.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by Ruger77 »

I appreciate the input. This seems to be a constant dilemma on jobs, not just timing/water pumps. Where do we draw the line at good recommendations and helping someone out of jamb? My experience has been that we either do it right, or not at all. This particular Concorde is a deal where the customer also wants to make monthly payments, with no interest (elderly lady on Soc. Security). We are a new shop, but we are steady with work.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by steven kiser »

it may be getting cold but santa isn't here yet. on the subject of a chain with a pump it all depends on the condition of the chain. i've replaced pumps without giving the chain a second thought and i've replaced them when i've opened them up and seen chain and guide wear. it a situation that needs to be dealt with upon investigation. personally, allowing someone to pay on time is something we all run into and probably have done from time to time. i'll allow split payments on certain customers under certain situations but i would not recommend a stretch payment. if i were to do this i would want enough of a deposit to cover the parts. not to get real negative here :shock: but i've had a few that have stiffed me on long payment plans. people will and do arrive at conclusions that lead them to believe that they got screwed and just stop paying. i've been around for a while and have customers that have been with me from the beginning and i'll make considerations with them on occasion. if a person is new there is no way i'll do it. you have to override the good warm feeling that you think you'll get by helping someone out. the only warm feeling you'll get is when you get heated up.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by marcdaniels »

We have the good customers that you can trust but even now and then even they forget. We started allowing better customers to pay half down and then they can break up the remaining balance over a three week period. BUT and I MEAN BUT they must give me either a credit/debit card or predated checks for deposit on the following fridays. We also offer GE money credit.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by Ruger77 »

Well, my pattern on jobs like this is to explain the risks, prepare the customer for the possibility of it needing a chain, etc., and THEN making the judgement call when we get in there. The initial shop that looked at this did not mention to her any of the risks of this job, and qouted only the water pump. I of course had a way higher estimate, but after my explanation (without bashing the other shop, which I will not do) she seemed satisfied. As far as the payments go, she wants to make small payments for 4 months. I agree with you Steve, I would like to feel warm and fuzzy inside, but warm and fuzzy don't pay bills. I have declined the job (because the payments are too small), but we are new, and I never want to get so arrogant that I don't know where my food comes from.
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by steven kiser »

you say you are new ruger77 but you just made a good decision. there are times when you make more money not doing the job. as owners we at times feel the compulsion to assist those in need. it's human nature. i've done it in the past and had a warm fuzzy feeling while other times i've wanted to shove my head through a wall. if you have that attitude about spread payments then my suggestion would be to stick with it. if the cash flow allows for you to "finance" a job and it will make you feel all warm and fuzzy then have at it. i get all my warm and fuzzy feelings by donating to associations for retarded citizens. all in all i've been stiffed by people that reminded me of my grandparents. as far as having dated checks, they're only good if there is money in the bank. i have accounts that will run up invoices totaling over 10k a mos. if i'm carrying them for a month i have a security of some type. i have a company that i have a credit card on file that i run a program for a secured payment each month. obviously i want it by check to saver the credit card vig. i have signed dated titles on file for equipment as collateral. i've also held equipment or appliances as collateral. i may sound like a pawn shop but when i do this i don't loose a cent. one time i held a signed golf club members membership card transferring ownership to me. it was a closed club with a waiting list a mile long. word got out and bidding started. i got paid. my point here is always cover yourself. take it from an old timer and i mean listen real close, the people that you think will never screw you are the ones that you need to watch and protect yourself from. i put an engine in my wife's best friends car because she couldn't afford a new car. she was getting divorced and we decided to help her out. put her on payment plan and she was all happy for the first couple of weeks. apparently someone knew someone that had a relative that claimed over a few drinks he would have saved her a few hundred bucks if he could have worked on the car as a fill in and had it for a mos. obviously this is an exaggeration but we all get the idea. suddenly she felt that we were screwing her. it went from that right to we owned our own business and were making money hand over fist. we took advantage of her situation and she felt that she owed us nothing. i looked at my wife, since she was the one that insisted i do this for her best friend and told her to deal with it. well they haven't spoken for 10 years and i got stiffed for 3 grand. she started banging some lawyer and i just knew that i would be wasting my time trying to collect an unsecured debt. giving to the salvation army or red cross is a good feeling. getting screwed by a friend, relative, someone that reminds you of a loved one isn't.......
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Re: 2000 Chrys Concorde - 2.7L Water Pump - Timing Chain

Post by steven kiser »

and no i still haven't figured out how to do paragraphs. every time i do an indent to start one it posts as all together. i need the "beep" i get from spell check to let me know when to space. :lol: :lol:
never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
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