1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out - FIXED!

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1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out - FIXED!

Post by Tim Martin »

Let me tell the story.

I got this van sent to me by another shop. The vehicle is a 99 Mercury Villager with a 3.3L engine. Initially, the owner took it to a shop in town for a miss. After being there for awhile and replacing some of the plugs, ignition wires, MAF, O2 sensor, TPS, MAP, and distributor, the vehicle would not start. The owner then towed it to another shop that looked at it but couldn't figure it out. That shop called me in and we got it towed down to my shop. After some initial diagnosis, I called the shop for more info. That's when I found out it had been elsewhere for repairs and all the previously mentioned parts had been replaced. So, I decided to begin my diagnosis from scratch. There were different number of plugs. A few were non platinum and the others were regular autolites. I got a set of Motorcraft from the dealer. I had found out that by unhooking the MAF, I could start the engine. New plugs allowed it to stay running although not right. I see that the short term fuel trim values are maxed out, indicating an air-fuel ratio issue. I discovered the fuel pressure regulator leaking slightly. I got a new one coming. Will that fix it? I don't know yet. But this thing is driving me up a wall so to speak.

Any more ideas from you guys? By the way - no trouble codes in the PCM.
Last edited by Tim Martin on Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by liljoe »

Big thing that comes in my warped mind is just making sure the customer ( who-ever they are ) knows what is going on and that you can not be sure of any thing till after you do it, just that yoou are certian that it is needed and document why it was needed..... Other then that, I think you will hammer this one out and forget how stressfull it is at this time..... :mrgreen:

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Re: Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by brianp87 »

What irks me about these situations is that they then expect you to do it cheaply cause they spent all there money throwing parts at it from the other shade tree guy. Id let the custoemr knwo that you are not a parts thrower and only replace things as they are definitly needed so it will take a while to diagnose and may requiring repalcing some of the parts that were thrown at it. As evident by the use of incorect plugs. btw good luck :lol:
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Re: Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by sbebenelli »

brianp87 wrote:What irks me about these situations is that they then expect you to do it cheaply cause they spent all there money throwing parts at it from the other shade tree guy.
We have this same problem. Spend $100's either themselves or somewhere else then all of a sudden it's expected that we should be able to fix it for nothing. :roll: I don't get it.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by Tim Martin »

Well, so far as the owner is concerned, he did not pay anything to the first shop. He said he told them that he is not paying them. He told me that whatever it takes to get it running is what it costs. I did replace the MAF with a reman and now the engine runs but the short term fuel trim numbers are still maxed out to minus 25. So I know we have an issue yet. It also runs like its out of fuel and will eventually shut off at idle. Interesting though that vacuum is at 20 inches which is surprising for the way it runs.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by brianp87 »

Tim Martin wrote:Well, so far as the owner is concerned, he did not pay anything to the first shop. He said he told them that he is not paying them. He told me that whatever it takes to get it running is what it costs. I did replace the MAF with a reman and now the engine runs but the short term fuel trim numbers are still maxed out to minus 25. So I know we have an issue yet. It also runs like its out of fuel and will eventually shut off at idle. Interesting though that vacuum is at 20 inches which is surprising for the way it runs.

Be careful if he wont pay them hopefully he will pay you?
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by Tim Martin »

By the way, where and how is the fuel pressure checked on this application?
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by sbebenelli »

On these we have an adapter that connects into one of the fuel filter fittings. Not saying this has anything to do with what you have going on just letting you know that Villagers have a huge problem with injectors causing misfires.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by Tim Martin »

Actually this engine does not have a misfire at this time. Just running rich but perhaps it is an injector or more causing that. Would there be a loss of fuel pressure as soon as the engine is shut off?
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by Tim Martin »

Ok. Found another issue. The O2 Sensor has been heated blue in an attempt to get it out of the exhaust pipe. I suppose that kind of heat has it ruined. Soooooo. I need to get one of them.

Wow. What will I find yet?
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by sbebenelli »

Tim Martin wrote:Actually this engine does not have a misfire at this time. Just running rich but perhaps it is an injector or more causing that. Would there be a loss of fuel pressure as soon as the engine is shut off?
Yeah I took it that no misfire was present. I just wanted to throw that out there. The injectors in these tend to not allow enough fuel and causing a misfire. I've never seen one leak. Doing a flow test using a fuel pressure gauge tends to not show the bad one making it hard to determine it's an injector.

At one time we had several customers with these vans and I think everyone ended up getting injectors. I never did like working on Villagers.

Another thing that used to happen is a hesitation while driving. What caused this was the reluctor wheel in the distributor would get a oily film on it. Cleaning it with brake clean would fix the problem.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by steven kiser »

After you replace the 02 and you still need to unplug the maf replace it. As a rule when i get a vehicle that uses the Ford style maf and i unplug it to make it run that's the issue.

This is also a you need to make sure that all that was done prior to it coming to your shop is correct. Like the plugs being mixed up etc. If i saw the plugs like that all the alarms would be clanging and i would have a sit down with the customer. A think i always look for in situations like this is blown fuses. I don't know why but in situation where hackers have been waving magic wands and using tech in a can to fix something i've seen blown fuses that have caused the customer to return to my shop with issues and they never look at it like i do.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by Tim Martin »

Right now, the short term fuel trim numbers are -25% which is its limit. The engine runs crappy because something is telling the PCM to subtract fuel. I can pinch off the evaporative system line but that makes no difference. New O2 sensor makes no difference either. EGR is closed and functioning. I'm reaching the point of extreme frustration. What's hard to comprehend is 20 inches of vcauum, no misfires, and no trouble codes, and it runs like this. Wow!
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by mopwrforme »

tim it may sound simple but unplug the o2 the pcm should default to .5v, if it does that will ck wireing. while your replacing the o2 dont forget to ck. for restricted exhaust while your there. i do agree with steven in that if you have a crk, no start and you unplug the maf and it starts thats part if not all of your issues. I have seen my fair share of upper intake leaks. it sounds like your on the right track with the maf o2 and fuel regulator just take it
one step at a time. good luck man.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by Tim Martin »

I have a new MAF and now the engine runs with it plugged in but the short term fuel trim is still at -25% and runs crappy bad. Even if I unplug the MAF it still runs and the short term fuel trim stays at -25%. Very puzzling.

I need a cup a liquid caffiene.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by mopwrforme »

wow being the 3rd shop to look at this one I can imagine its a treat. Its also an opertunity to make a customer for
life and let your shop look a step above the others. It sounds like your getting there with the maf I am
assuming you have replaced the o2sensor and the fuel trim is still at -25% how did unpluging the o2 do as far as
the sensor reading went. did it default to .5v. you very well could have other issues upper intake leak, is where i would ck. how long does it take to max out after you reset the adpt. hang in there tim youll fix it
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by Tim Martin »

mopwrforme wrote:wow being the 3rd shop to look at this one I can imagine its a treat. Its also an opertunity to make a customer for
life and let your shop look a step above the others. It sounds like your getting there with the maf I am
assuming you have replaced the o2sensor and the fuel trim is still at -25% how did unpluging the o2 do as far as
the sensor reading went. did it default to .5v. you very well could have other issues upper intake leak, is where i would ck. how long does it take to max out after you reset the adpt. hang in there tim youll fix it
Decided to jump off a that puzzle and go to an easy job. Putting an 04 Saturn L300 engine back together. Will disconnect O2 sensor later and post the result.

On the issue of intake leaking. How would that affect short term fuel trim? Wouldn't that have a tendency to make it a lean situation and increase fuel trim?

Oh yes, fuel injector pulse width jumps all around. From 1.9 to 50. Millivolts is what I am presuming or else duty cycle. But it is extremely erratic. Obviously something out a whack.
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by liljoe »

Intake leak would cause trims to go high to the + side, if you add fuel (carb spray, propaine, ect) does it seem to pick up and run better? Does it act rich or lean?
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by liljoe »

Ops, seen in rereading that you mentioned it acts like running out of gas. That question is answered.....
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Re: 1999 Mercury Villager - Driving Me Stressed Out

Post by liljoe »

Noticed that you mentioned MAP being replaced, what is it reading? What are the 02 readings?
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