2003 Hyundai Elantra - Crank Seal

[John C.]

Car towed in, crank seal popped.

Replaced seal (with timing belt job), seal popped again on road test.

Spoke to Hyundai, and machine shop, told to super glue seal in.

Super glued seal in, was okay on extensive road test, customer took vehicle Friday afternoon; seal popped again on Saturday.

PCV valve system all clear, no excessive blow by.

Any ideas/knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

[ricmorin]

Car towed in, crank seal popped.

Replaced seal (with timing belt job), seal popped again on road test.

Spoke to Hyundai, and machine shop, told to super glue seal in.

Super glued seal in, was okay on extensive road test, customer took vehicle Friday afternoon; seal popped again on Saturday.

PCV valve system all clear, no excessive blow by.

Any ideas/knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

These engines are known to develop crank end play, some to the extent that it can push out a seal. Check for end play. Chances are the thrust bearings are laying in the pan right now.

[John C.]

Thanks Ric, that was it.

Turns out the machine shop told him the same thing when he asked last week. Why I oughta...

[ricmorin]

Thanks Ric, that was it.

Turns out the machine shop told him the same thing when he asked last week. Why I oughta...

That engine should be covered for that under the 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.

[John C.]

That engine should be covered for that under the 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.

It's got over a 100,000.

Amazin; the POS made it that far!!!

[ricmorin]

Darn! Looks like you'll be writing up an estimate.

[John C.]

End of the day yesterday, Mark (tech) called Hyundai to get prices on the thrust washer and bearing cap, and parts guy said he asked around (after first saying he never really heard of this problem) and was told when this happens, they just replace short block!

Ric, in your experience, does this sound accurate?????

[ricmorin]

End of the day yesterday, Mark (tech) called Hyundai to get prices on the thrust washer and bearing cap, and parts guy said he asked around (after first saying he never really heard of this problem) and was told when this happens, they just replace short block!

Ric, in your experience, does this sound accurate?????

Well, it doesn't sound unreasonable. Given the engine is over 100k, I'd be leary about any major surgery on the existing engine. Sounds like a candidate for a good used or rebuilt to me.

[John C.]

End of the day yesterday, Mark (tech) called Hyundai to get prices on the thrust washer and bearing cap, and parts guy said he asked around (after first saying he never really heard of this problem) and was told when this happens, they just replace short block!

Ric, in your experience, does this sound accurate?????

Well, it doesn't sound unreasonable. Given the engine is over 100k, I'd be leary about any major surgery on the existing engine. Sounds like a candidate for a good used or rebuit to me.

Thanks Ric, that's the first thing Mark said to me when he came in, this morning.

[steven kiser]

i would think it would only warrant a good used engine. shop around and get the one for that particular vehicle and the harness either cut on the vehicle side of the harness or unplugged. i believe there are differences on the engine if it's california or federal emissions. choose carefully. i would also install a new water pump and belts as well as any other thing that's acessable when engine is out. good luck.

[John C.]

Okay, finally found the correct engine, and replaced it along with the works (only way we ever do it Steve ).

Now, having trouble starting. Turn key, (and I'm quoting tech) "crank, crank, crank, nothing happens, stop, turn key again and starts up. Turn off, try again and same thing happens, crank, crank, crank turn key off, then on again and starts".

All sensors have been removed from old engine and put on new/used engine.

Anyone come across this problem, or know a relearn procedure for the computer?

(Hundred bucks tech will tell me he worded it wrong the first time, it's an ongoing theme.)

[ricmorin]

My first thought is maybe a cam-crank sync issue or no cam signal.

[John C.]

That's what these two chuckle heads thought, hence why they switched everything over.

Quite stumped, and it's the silliest thing, crank no start, turn key off then on and starts, you could sit there all day doing it over and over, starts every other time.

The worst part is that when it's running, it runs great, and that's saying a lot for a Hyundai!

[ricmorin]

That's what these two chuckle heads thought, hence why they switched everything over.

Quite stumped, and it's the silliest thing, crank no start, turn key off then on and starts, you could sit there all day doing it over and over, starts every other time.

The worst part is that when it's running, it runs great, and that's saying a lot for a Hyundai!

Ha, I guess that makes me a chucklehead too!

So are you saying the condition was present before the engine swap?

[ricmorin]

Does this have anti-theft? Maybe something going on with the key or the receiver?

[John C.]

That's what these two chuckle heads thought, hence why they switched everything over.

Quite stumped, and it's the silliest thing, crank no start, turn key off then on and starts, you could sit there all day doing it over and over, starts every other time.

The worst part is that when it's running, it runs great, and that's saying a lot for a Hyundai!

Ha, I guess that makes me a chucklehead too!

So are you saying the condition was present before the engine swap?

Geez, never thought of it in those terms, sorry.

Nope, didn't have the problem before.

Just has the typical remote door lock.

[ricmorin]

Geez, never thought of it in those terms, sorry.

I'm just kidding. I really didn't take it that way either.

Can you scope the cam and crank signals for both events and see if there is a difference?

[steven kiser]

does the tach read while you're cranking? is there a security light flashing while you're cranking? while cranking under the no start condition have someone spray carb cleaner into the air intake and see if it hits. if it does check the asd relay or fuel pump relay. see if it starts if you rock key bask and forth while cranking. make sure all grounds are intact. good luck......................

[John C.]

The nightmare is over!

After replacing almost everything, exhausting all our resources, we finally shipped it out to the dealer; new PCM and it's all fixed.

Mark, who has been a tech for almost 40 years, said he has never had anything like this, biggest ML the three of us have had in the 9 years we've been together.

We're just glad it's over, and I really hope to never see one of those POS ever again.

[steven kiser]

wonder if key was in the on position when battery was connected. i've gotten into the habit of placing the key on the roof of the car. if a car comes into the shop with a dead battery i always plug my mem keeper into the data lilk, disconnect the negative cable and charge the battery. i've read to many horror stories about electrical issues cause by a surge. i've saved the protective sleeves or caps that are coming on the batteries that i'm installing. if i'm working on a vehicle that i have to disconnect the battery on i will put these protectors on it. i know that i've had times where an extension will roll across the battery or i'll lay a tool down and i'll make light of it now but i have extensions (a few) that have arc marks on them. i've seen arcs when connecting the negative cable and sighed hoping the key wasn't on.