2002 Ford F350 - 7.3L No Start Under 45 Degrees

[steven kiser]

Vehicle has not yet arrived. Might be here tomorrow as customer is not in a rush.

i just love the "not in a rush" for it until they need it. then all of a sudden they go code red on you and expect you to turn it around while they go to lunch........

[fortknoxx]

whats the temp tOday?

[Jeff @ Able Auto]

61 in flOrida.

[steven kiser]

mass has nO "O"s

[ricmorin]

Well folks, this vehicle has finally arrived. It's been inside the shop for a while but I wanted to check the basics before I put it outside. Had my tech cycle the key while I monitor the glow plug relay first. One time the relay never even energized. The feed terminal got so hot it was almost smoking. And its melted. Hmmmm. Maybe I need a relay. Yup. I do. Not saying this is the only problem, but let's start here. Installing a relay and putting it outside. I'll keep you posted.

[liljoe]

You could put it out side here, it would cool off REAL fast, its 21 right now, was supposed to get to 33 today but don't look like it gonna make it.

[ricmorin]

It's 20 here right now and real breezy. Brrrr.

Update: Installed new relay. It's 65 in the shop and the truck won't start. Next I'll look at glow plugs....tomorrow.

[brianp87]

Did you check the harness under the v/c's ? btw its 70 here. brrr....

[liljoe]

Just curoius, do the v-c's look like they been off?

[brianp87]

I do them harness alot I mean alot.

[ricmorin]

Hard to tell cuz this pig is filthy. I figured I'd check the glow plugs right at the VC connector. If the plug or the harness is bad, it should show up on the check, but I'm having a hard time getting the plugs off. The plastic is hard as a rock. Perhaps I can use the amp meter on my Vat45 to measure the draw of each glow plug.

[steven kiser]

take a good look at the plug on the harness side. replaced a few of them in my day. last i knew ford didn't supply a replacement connector. i inform my customers of this and every one of them have agreed to allow me to change the plug over to another style. winzer supplies connectors and i've used plugs that i've found in trailer wiring catalogues.

b.t.w. how have you dealt with the fact that he's a traveler? i've had a few do this and try to convince me that they made a huge mistake and regret it. i need to feel comfortable with my customers as much as they are with me. if it's not there, then after i've tried to develop it and can't, i cut them loose. i believe in ending the bleeding asap. if in the back of your mind you know (and you will) it's not going to work out, don't wait for the screwing that's around the corner. you know that there is the real possibility that after you fix it, and i'm sure you will, you invoice may be shown around and every person that thinks that they know what they're doing as well as other shop owners will tell him that either they or their mechanic could have done it cheaper. it's like if two people are walking down the street and a stray dog walks up, they both reach out to pat it and one gets bit. the other will most likely ask the other "you know better than patting a stray" even though it could have been them that got bit because they were reaching as well. suddenly they were reaching to stop the other from patting the dog. they're the hind sight hero. i once listened to a person tell a story about another that got hit by a car. he said "i almost told him to look out". he made it sound like he lost his grip on someone that he was trying to save from tumbling to their death. i looked at him and said "i have to excuse myself before i think of almost calling you an idiot, don't second guess something and then make it sound like you acted on it" unfortunately, this behavior is common and let's not forget that there is always the " friend of my neighbors daughters boyfriends third cousins dog groomers second cousin" that watched shade tree mechanic once, and is now a highly trained tech, and claims that you overcharged to fix the truck. extreme? probably, but i know you get my point. with customers like this we enter the "crotch kicking" contest. the only down side is that they kick first.........woah, i just shuddered at the thought. i know i'm not iron balls McClusky, are you? have a great day

[ricmorin]

Update: Measured all the glow plugs. All at .5 to .6 ohms. Measured amperage draw on each bank. Each draw 100 amps initially. That tells me that power is going to all glow plugs if I remember my ohms law correctly. I'm not happy with the vc connectors. The engine side female terminals are a bit spread and have low pin drag on them. But my amperage reading tells me all glow plugs are getting power. Any thoughts so far?

[brianp87]

Pull the vc

[steven kiser]

the temp issue is the key. it could be as simple as expansion and contraction. tsb 04-25-4 could come into play. with the scanner attached during this no start issue are there any readings that are scattering. i'm wondering if the crank or cam sensor is being effected by the cold. i've run into a few pressure issues that really act up when it gets cold. i had to really play dick tracy on one. customer claimed it was running "great" until this happened. well, the long and short of it was his definition of running "great" was getting from point a to point b. i asked him about fuel consumption, power, etc., come to find out that our definitions of running "great" were a bit different. it had a bad injector pump and if i wasn't led into the running great until it got cold scenario i might have saved some time. was this truck struggling to start and went to no start when temp dropped? i've seen this before. had a customer in the shop when i fired up a truck like his and he said that his truck hasn't run like that for years. some people think that because it's a dsl it's going to start like an old autocar. i had a customer come in for a low tire and his truck was rapping away. i told him that the motor was a bit noisy and he said that it was a dsl and it always sounded that way. he knew that dsl's were louder than gas. i got the " don't you know that dsl's are louder" look and off he went. it showed up on a hook a week later. oh ya, i gave him the "if you listened to me a week before look" i may have been able to add oil and save the motor.

[ricmorin]

Got a chance to spend some time with this today. Did a balance test and cylinders 8 and 5 showed weak. Pulled LH valve cover off. Harness ok. VC connector ok. All glow plugs test fine. HMMMM. That's exactly what I expected based on my external readings. Guess I gotta pull the RH now. Don't think I'll find anything but I gotta look.

[brianp87]

Are you gonna do a compression test?

[Tim Martin]

Well fellows. We work on these fine species of trucks alot. With regards to the hard start issue. When the engine is being cranked over and it does not start, is there white smoke coming out the tailpipe? If it aint, you got either a camshaft sensor at fault or a fuel issue of some proportion. Based on what I have read so far, I seriously doubt the glow plugs are at fault in this one. On the scan tool while cranking the engine, does the synch message say yes? We have seen cam sensors intermittantly fail. What is fuel pressure? Has anyone checked? On the scan tool while engine is being cranked over, what is ICP pressure? Ya gotta look at the whole picture on these beasties when diagnosing them.

[Ruger77]

One quick thought..... I got burnt once by looking at the desired ICP and the actual ICP (one is right above the other on the Modis) and getting them flip flopped. Felt stupid after looking at it for an hour saying " I've got EVERYTHING, why won't it start?" then realizing I only had 68 psi ... not 500 like I needed.

[ricmorin]

If I get time later, I'll look a bit closer. I agree that based on testing so far, glow plug system is ok.

No white smoke, or any smoke to speak of. When it does start the tailpipe is pretty clean.

I'll check ICP and fuel pressure too. Stay tuned and keep the suggestions coming. Very appreciated.